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Master tryout keys?

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the lockpickkid

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Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:58 pm

Master tryout keys?

I know this may seem as a dumb question but I am totally serious, is there any such thing as M1 tryout keys? I find it hard to get good marks on the blanks to impression, alot of that is due to my inexperience, but alot I think has to do with the sloppy way the cylinder is housed in the lock. Some people have a bunch of locks all keyed alike and lost the keys, they want me to make a key, but I am really thinking I will burn one lock just to get a working key, but I wish I didn't have to do it this way. Any ideas? I wish I could figure out how to decode them.
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LocksmithArmy

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Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:17 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

for 3000 i can get you a falle decoder that will decode them without fail... while it may seem im a smart ass... im not lying... and this offer goes to anyone... i have credentials the credentials to get the decoder and would be happy to purchase it for you
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nozza36

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Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:29 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

Lockpick kid , any chance of a picture ?
Is it a pin tumbler , you could try knife edging your blank if so to help impressioning as the thinner the key blade , the easier it will mark up ,
can you pick one and strip it down ?
pop it in a vise and and just keep filing until the pins all lie flush with the cylinders edge
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danny-el-cocinero

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Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:05 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

Yeah you need a "sputnik" tool it would work a treat wish i had one but like LSA confirmed there pritty pricey!
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barbarian

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Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:00 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

That is an interesting offer from LSA..

Is it indeed a sputnik that you were thinking of ??

I just have the old Falle catalog with no prices. Is there a new catalog or perhaps a price list ?
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thelockoutguys

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Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

NO tryouts available. I have a huge ring of precut blanks laying around. You can impression of course but thats why i tell people its cheaper to buy a new padlock even if i can impression them. Its not worth my time. one of those locks are @ $10. my time is way more than that to impression that lock..you can also grind off rivits on bottom. remove cyclinder and use you space and depth keys. code cut then rerivit. But again noone wants to pay the money.
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LocksmithArmy

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Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:47 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

barbarian wrote:That is an interesting offer from LSA..

Is it indeed a sputnik that you were thinking of ??

I just have the old Falle catalog with no prices. Is there a new catalog or perhaps a price list ?


no the falle decoder is not a sputnik... and no i dont have a catalog, i have a distributer...
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Farmerfreak

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Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:28 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

Where I work we also charge more than the padlock to make a key. I do still fit some from time to time. I rarely just straight impression them anymore. I pick them open and put a screw driver in the shackle hole to help prevent the plug from turning back and locking back up. While it's picked I use a light to look into it, and feel around with my hook pick to get a general idea of what the depths and pattern of the key is like. That alone can get you pretty close or at least give you a head start on impressioning.

While it's still picked you can go one step further. Make a set of depth keys and cut off all the peaks in between the cuts. You can take those keys and see how far each one slides into the lock. If the first cut is the deepest cut, this will tell you exactly what depth that cut is and you will only need to figure out the other three. And since you should have felt around a little bit with a hook pick, you should know which of the three is deeper and shallower depths. If the first cut in the locks isn't the deepest cut, you should be able to figure out the exact depths of even more pins.
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elbowmacaroni

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Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:21 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

Well, I think if it was just one padlock, he would tell them to just go buy another. But he mentioned that he's seeing a number of people who have a bunch of them KA... now the real question here is how did they lose the keys to all of them damn locks?
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the lockpickkid

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Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:44 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

Well the Master #12 was the best thing that Masterlock came out with in the laminated series, you can rekey it, the others, not so easy. I know it's not worth the time to do these, I am aware that after the time spent it would cost more than the lock, thing is instead of buying a Master that can be rekeyed alot of people around here have just bought large quantity of KA laminated locks to put on all there gates, etc. It would be cool to be able to figure out the bitting and just get it done. I think on these the easiest thing is just to cut the rivets like the lockoutguys said and just go from there, I have done this a few times anyway. FarmerFreak has a great idea, but funny thing is, I bet 90% of all the M1's here all have a deep first cut. I was starting to think that's how they all came!! I have gotten some ideas though, thanks guys. NO LSA sorry, I am getting a tax check back but I am afraid $3000 for anything to do with a Masterlock is way absurd!!
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magician59

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Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:32 am

Re: Master tryout keys?

If I had you here for a day, I could show you my decoding technique for these locks. But for now; if you file the shoulder down on your key blank, you'll have better success getting impressions. The cylinders do move around; and the shoulder of the key blank is stopped by the lock body before you can actually bump the pins enough to make a mark.

Filing the shoulder down allows the cylinder to move to its physical limit, and there is still enough room to move the key blank against the pins, without its contacting the lock body. You'll be amazed at the difference in the marks.
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the lockpickkid

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Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:42 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

Awesome, I will try that, I get marks for a few strokes, then nothing at all, only rub marks from pulling the key out and putting it in, and those marks are just on the peaks it seems.
I have been in the souls of many women, but I always end up on the soles of there shoes.
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bouncer965

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Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:51 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

Just out of curiosity kid, have you tried foil impressioning it open. Like in this vid.

Could work .
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Farmerfreak

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Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

magician59 wrote:Filing the shoulder down allows the cylinder to move to its physical limit
That's a good observation and solution. I've never really noticed that problem as I normally use the bind and pull technique for getting marks from pin tumbler locks (note: only use the bind and lift technique on wafer locks, never the bind and pull). I've just always gotten better marks with the bind and pull technique. Originally I think that problem may have been why too, since I learned how to impression on basic master locks. And now I'm just used to the pull method.
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magician59

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Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:46 pm

Re: Master tryout keys?

I used the pull-out method before...that's how we got our second-born son! Sorry...Couldn't resist. Seriously, though, Back in the 70's and 80's, the method was so popular that a man named Grumbach (spelling?) made a key holding fixture that one could clamp the key blank onto; The handle was triggered, like the Curtis Clipper. When the impressioner turned the key in the cylinder and squoze the trigger, a pin would project against the face of the lock, and pull the key blank against the pins. the bound pins would leave a very pronounced rut in the blank, that was a helluva lot easier to see than a point of an impression mark. I wore mine out, making keys for cars in that way.
Nemo Malus Felix

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