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Working of a new MK program

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dmasters

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Post Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:31 pm

Re: Working of a new MK program

That's cleaner and better looking than a lot of the crap folks out there are trying to peddle!
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MBI

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Post Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:41 pm

Re: Working of a new MK program

Werewolf wrote:Can you make it so the user can choose how many positions are used for the masters and how many for the change keys ?

Can you make it support maison keying ? If possible, a separate maison cylinder under each master key.

Can your program identify bad keys other than MACS violation ? Maximum repetition or pull-out codes, for example.

I was curious about some of these things too. Although since this program is a work in progress, I realize that a lot of features might take some time to get incorporated smoothly into it.

dmasters wrote:That's cleaner and better looking than a lot of the crap folks out there are trying to peddle!

Agreed. I've seen some horrendous locksmith software.
This one looks like it would be a bit more user-friendly than some of the stuff that's out there.
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chieflittlehorse

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:20 am

Re: Working of a new MK program

Werewolf, are you talking about Rotating Constants?

I don't understand the rotating constant method. I only do two-step progression masterkeying as I was taught in school.

If you can give me and example of masterkeying a maison cyclinder, then I can do it. I've written pinning charts that use more than two keys before if that's what you mean. I just punch in the key bittings and it'll give me the pins for the lock.

I don't quite understand what you mean by bad keys other than one that violate the MACS.

If you mean keys that have a 9 in the first cut or something like that, my program has the ability to sort out any key bitting number desired. My work sometimes don't want want any 9 cuts on any change keys, so I just filter them out of the system.

If you can show me examples of what you require, I'll figure a way to do it.

CLH.
You leave my GRAPHITE alone!!!
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Werewolf

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:57 pm

Re: Working of a new MK program

A maison cylinder for your sample system would be:
000000 (key pins)
222222 (master pins)
222222 (aditional master pins)
222222 (aditional master pins)
222222 (aditional master pins)
But , then every key in this profile with only even bitting would fit. So thats not very secure.

A maison cylinder for every key on that page of your sample would be:
002000 (key pins)
222222 (master pins)
___222 (aditional master pins)
___222 (aditional master pins)
___222 (aditional master pins)
(an _ means no master pin. Can't use space in this font)
This maison will not fit the keys from other pages of the system , even their masters. (I'm assuming page 2 would have 424246 as page master, page 3 624246).

This does not really have anything to do with Rotating Constants.
Rotating constant is used to generate the change keys. The same way that "partial position progression" or "total position progression" is used.
It is very simular to partial position progression. But in PPP one or more of the cuts are the same as on the masterkey. And these are the same on all keys in the system. With Rotating constant , the postion of the cut that is identical to the masterkey , is changed (rotated). This allows for more key differs than with total position progressioning (in some situations) , without creating more ghost keys.

Other than MACS voilation , there are a few reasons to not used a certain key.
A deep cut in the first position will weaken it.
The same cut repeated 3 or more times will make the lock too easy to pick.
A key where the cuts get progressively deeper from bow to tip is called a pull-out key. When the edges between the cuts wear down , there is nothing to stop the key from being pulled out of the lock at any position.
Some master key programs have an option where they won't accept a key where all the cuts are shallower than the master. This sort of key could be filed down (or wear down) in to a ghost or master.

FYI , i don't require anything. I'm actually working on my own Master Key Program at this moment. And just want to give some feedback on things you may otherwise overlook.

Wolf
"Who are you and how did you get in here ?"
"I'm a locksmith , and i'm a locksmith"
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chieflittlehorse

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Post Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:53 am

Re: Working of a new MK program

Werewolf and mdc5150, if you guys don't mind..... can you guys send us some screen shots of your masterkeying program.

I'm sure we'd all like to see it.

CLH....

Would also like to know what lock manufacturers have you done.

I've found Medeco Biaxial and Corbin Emhart to be a challenge but 'tis been done.

Even regular L, R, C cuts for Medeco has a challenge.

ASSA masterkeying wasn't too bad.

If anyone has literature on Corbin Master Ring Cylinders, they would be very much appreciated, thanks.

PS... Check out my werewolf channel on youtube, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbzM40O2d1fxJhh6h6Ohe0g. Enjoy the videos!

CLH!
You leave my GRAPHITE alone!!!
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mdc5150

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Post Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:05 am

Re: Working of a new MK program

chieflittlehorse wrote:Werewolf and mdc5150, if you guys don't mind..... can you guys send us some screen shots of your masterkeying program.

I'm sure we'd all like to see it.

CLH....

Would also like to know what lock manufacturers have you done.

I've found Medeco Biaxial and Corbin Emhart to be a challenge but 'tis been done.

Even regular L, R, C cuts for Medeco has a challenge.

ASSA masterkeying wasn't too bad.

If anyone has literature on Corbin Master Ring Cylinders, they would be very much appreciated, thanks.

PS... Check out my werewolf channel on youtube, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbzM40O2d1fxJhh6h6Ohe0g. Enjoy the videos!

CLH!

Full disclosure, I modeled these sheets after something else I have worked with. The 7 pin is for SFIC A2. The pinning chart will self adjust to make all the pinning calculations when you add/adjust the bittings for control and master.

Very simple, 2 step progression. The master key page shows the native master keys that involve more than one page. Page masters are too obvious to even add them in.

6 Pin Masters.pdf


6 Pin page 1.pdf


7 pin masters.pdf


7 Pin pinning.pdf


7 Pin Page 1.pdf
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Werewolf

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Post Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:48 pm

Re: Working of a new MK program

Chief , i tried sending you a pm yesterday , but it's still stuck in my outbox. (could your inbox be full ?)
My program is still pretty much a work in progress , so i can't give you any meaningfull screenshots at this time.
"Who are you and how did you get in here ?"
"I'm a locksmith , and i'm a locksmith"
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jeffmoss26

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Post Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:30 pm

Re: Working of a new MK program

chieflittlehorse wrote:Werewolf and mdc5150, if you guys don't mind..... can you guys send us some screen shots of your masterkeying program.

I'm sure we'd all like to see it.

CLH....

Would also like to know what lock manufacturers have you done.

I've found Medeco Biaxial and Corbin Emhart to be a challenge but 'tis been done.

Even regular L, R, C cuts for Medeco has a challenge.

ASSA masterkeying wasn't too bad.

If anyone has literature on Corbin Master Ring Cylinders, they would be very much appreciated, thanks.

PS... Check out my werewolf channel on youtube, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbzM40O2d1fxJhh6h6Ohe0g. Enjoy the videos!

CLH!


CLH - have you looked at the Corbin Russwin cylinder manual? That has some info on master ring cylinders.

JM
Innerpicked: The more keys you carry, the more important you look
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
xeo: i root for the kernel
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chieflittlehorse

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Post Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:49 am

Re: Working of a new MK program

Thanks mdc5150, I was doing something similar to how you showed your master keys.

I had done a large system on a spreadsheet and had 64 different sheets for each page, but then I later shortened it to 1 page, yet I can just select a page and it'll show me the bittings.

But I've found out if I use the 64 sheets for my program, I am better able to do more calculations like showing all the Page Masters, Quad Page Masters, Sixteen Page Masters, and the 64 Page Master.

I know there are also Page Masters that will work in different ways such as working Page 1, 5, 9, 13. (In a 16 Page system or greater).

I was going to make my advance program that complicated so as to use it as a teaching tool for those wanting to teach master keying.

Later in the far future I will try to make a video showing how I use my program.

I never bought a master keying program so it's hard for me to compare mines with theirs. I have tried some at school before but they don't make it easy on you, at least in my experience.

I even downloaded some demo programs and I really wasn't that impress as it seems more complicated than it should be, at least that is my opinion of those master keying programs at the moment.

Werewolf, I did get your PM, I haven't done those other high security type locks that you've mentioned yet. Was talking to someone about BiLock on master keying on some other forum but another user was worried about what we were talking about and they stopped us from posting to each other. So I lost the chance to know how to master key that lock. All we were talking about was progression possibilities...
You leave my GRAPHITE alone!!!
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mdc5150

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Post Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:42 pm

Re: Working of a new MK program

chieflittlehorse wrote:Thanks mdc5150, I was doing something similar to how you showed your master keys.

I had done a large system on a spreadsheet and had 64 different sheets for each page, but then I later shortened it to 1 page, yet I can just select a page and it'll show me the bittings.

But I've found out if I use the 64 sheets for my program, I am better able to do more calculations like showing all the Page Masters, Quad Page Masters, Sixteen Page Masters, and the 64 Page Master.

I know there are also Page Masters that will work in different ways such as working Page 1, 5, 9, 13. (In a 16 Page system or greater).

I was going to make my advance program that complicated so as to use it as a teaching tool for those wanting to teach master keying.

Later in the far future I will try to make a video showing how I use my program.

I never bought a master keying program so it's hard for me to compare mines with theirs. I have tried some at school before but they don't make it easy on you, at least in my experience.

I even downloaded some demo programs and I really wasn't that impress as it seems more complicated than it should be, at least that is my opinion of those master keying programs at the moment.

Werewolf, I did get your PM, I haven't done those other high security type locks that you've mentioned yet. Was talking to someone about BiLock on master keying on some other forum but another user was worried about what we were talking about and they stopped us from posting to each other. So I lost the chance to know how to master key that lock. All we were talking about was progression possibilities...


We have a master key program at work but you pretty much print it out and you are done. I like being able to label changes on the computer. I also like to be able to manipulate a system any way I want, and using my own program let's me think it out. I don't need a pinning chart printed out, figuring a pinning between a change and the MK is easy enough. If I have to do any cross keying then I just write that out.
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chieflittlehorse

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Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:05 am

Re: Working of a new MK program

I was wondering, if I show too much of my masterkey program, do you think it's possible that these companies that produce masterkey programs can steal my ideas or the way I present my program. I'm pretty sure they could.

I don't like being paranoid, but I really wish an independent software company take me up on making a masterkey program as I see fit or strike a deal with me.

I've talked to some people at some locksmith shows and showed them an example of what I can do, but they joke around saying stuff like, "Oh, can I get a copy of that!"

i've even spoke to Medeco representatives and was willing to sell them a sample to use in their Medeco pinning lectures but said they do that already. Yet I took free Medeco classes at school and all they had was a slide show, nothing spectacular.

I really wish I could make some money off of all the computer stuff I do, but maybe I'm not too good of a saleman or something.

So far I'm been playing and learning about Google Docs thru Youtube and stuff.

I'm working on a google presentation on the California Tribes. It's something educational for the kids and hopefully they will learn something.

I'm going to the Huntington Park library with my dad to get some ideas.

Anyways, I'm on a roll after watching Youtube videos on making google sites, and google slides.

Computers are great when used properly and I'm on a teaching roll at the moment.

CLH!
You leave my GRAPHITE alone!!!
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