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Feeling defeated

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DIY Dave

Familiar Face

Posts: 228

Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:26 pm

Location: Indiana

Post Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:56 pm

Feeling defeated

Do you guys ever run into locks in the field that you can't pick? Today I did.

I was called out to a house where the owners had locked themselves out. It takes me about 20 minutes to get there, and I arrive to find them waiting for me in their car. According to the man they usually use the front door, so I started by trying to pick it. It was a mortise lock with an old Sargent cylinder. The cylinder seemed to be really stiff and I could barely get a single pin to set. Also the mortise lock was really loose in the door so it jiggled around a lot. Both the latch and the deadbolt were locked on it.

After a few minutes I moved on to the side door which had a night latch and a Sargent rim cylinder of the same keyway. It would not pick either. I even tried jimmying it open, but my shim got caught on the copper weatherstripping. After about 15 or 20 minutes the lady was getting tired of waiting, and said she would just call someone else. I offered that I could drill it as a last resort, but wouldn't have the exact cylinder to replace it with today. They declined.

I feel very defeated and frustrated at myself. I know I'm not the best lock picker ever, but I'm not too bad. I don't know if I was distracted or cold or why I couldn't get it. What would you guys do in that situation? How long would you spend on a stubborn lock?

I'm going to try to find an old Sargent cylinder around, then if I had to drill one I could just give them a replacement. (Sorry to make it such a long story)
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Altashot

Active Member

Posts: 424

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:32 pm

Location: Western Canada

Post Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:26 pm

Re: Feeling defeated

It happens, Sargent are typically hard to pick too.
I would have tried for a good half hour before drilling it.
Weather, lighting conditions and mood can all affect your picking skills.
Don't be too bummed out, we can't win them all.

For the client to say they were calling someone else after only 15-20 minutes, in my opinion is a bit hasty.
They certainly have very little patience and don't understand what it takes to pick locks.
Who knows if the next locksmith opened it...Maybe they had to call yet another one...Some people you just can't please.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience but I don't think it was you.
The conditions maybe weren't the best and a client breathing down your neck doesn't help either.

If any positive can be taken from the experience is that you gained experience.
I can't remember who said it but, "Experience is the sum of our mistakes."

So I say, let's all make mistakes then, we'll all gain from them.

M
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jharveee

Prolific Poster

Posts: 999

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:14 am

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:46 pm

Re: Feeling defeated

http://youtu.be/i32QexNZmb8
Sometimes, for whatever reason, a lock just wont open.
I carry a good amount of replacement locks, but no way can have every brand, size, shape, and finish.
So if I need to drill , I can be sure to secure the property and occupants. The job may require to special order their lock and a return visit.
I have a long laundry list of procedures.
Walk the property(usually unlocked door or window.)
look for the hidden key
Garage door
what kind of locks(dead bolts vs knob).
find weakest link in security and attack.
Bypass (slip latch, under door tools)
Bumping
Picking
raking rocking zipping
EPG: electric pick guns
Snap gun
Single pin picking
I'm going to get in.
Just a matter of time.
I try not to do any damage.
If I do, it has to be repairable.
Last edited by jharveee on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GringoLocksmith

Active Member

Posts: 250

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:12 am

Location: Gringolandia

Post Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:15 pm

Re: Feeling defeated

If she talked about calling another locksmith after only 20 minutes, she started with unrealistic expectations. And I'm willing to bet that she was saying things to diminish your focus and confidence in the time leading up to that.

Your job is to show up and let the customer into her home without leaving the place in worse condition than when you arrived. That's the service that customers are paying for. Single-pin picking might be your objective, but it's not required.

I met a guy the other day who'd been a locksmith for 25 years. He readily admitted that he's not so great at picking, and that if he can't get the lock after 5 minutes or so, he'll turn to the client and tell them it's probably most cost effective to just let him drill and replace the cylinder.
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jharveee

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Posts: 999

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:14 am

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:46 pm

Re: Feeling defeated

How many times have I heard "well Zeva(NCIS) would have had us in by now."
It's hard to focus on the job at hand when people are making comments behind your back.
Something you have to figure how to deal with. I just try to block them out and narrow my view and hearing to the lock.
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mdc5150

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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:35 pm

Post Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:50 pm

Re: Feeling defeated

jharveee wrote:How many times have I heard "well Zeva(NCIS) would have had us in by now."
It's hard to focus on the job at hand when people are making comments behind your back.
Something you have to figure how to deal with. I just try to block them out and narrow my view and hearing to the lock.


I used to hear that a lot when I would open doors for the police. I would sometimes tell them that I left my tv lock picks at home. I had someone not too long ago was becoming a real pain in the ass and had his buddy there with him. He pulled the "Ziva would have had it open by now." I turned around and said "Yeah and she wouldn't have been dumb enough to lock herself out either."
Not my finest moment but he was a dick.
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just1pick+open

Active Member

Posts: 310

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:13 pm

Location: Pennsylvania

Post Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:24 pm

Re: Feeling defeated

Foley belsaw sells a bunch of replacement cylinders that have what they call a composite keyway...it will accept at least 20+ different keys.. great to carry in a pinch for replacement of a variety of cylinders
xeo: i use an electric buzzer exclusively for my ass that gets sanitized afterwards
PhoneMan: would have freaked my friend out if hed come over
MBI: Most anything goes.
PhoneMan: way to give me nightmares
selim: ok then blow your load,, i'll take anything free now a day's
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Oldfast

User avatar

OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4412

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:16 am

Location: Michigan

Post Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:20 pm

Re: Feeling defeated

Already lots of wise thoughts & encouragement here. Thanks for sharing your experience Dave.

I've had more defeats than I care to remember. It's a good thing people aren't paying me for my services. lol
The one that really sticks out was a Schlage deadbolt. I could not pick it - and I did not get into the house.
It was humbling. And I have to admit... I DID NOT TAKE IT WELL. lol

But it did prompt me to bust out the dozen or so Schlage deadbolts I had at home.
Mounted them in all sorts of realistic positions along with adding obstructions on
one side or the other (to mimic a door jam). Picked on 'em for several days.
I'm now a slightly better picker because of it. And a little more humble.

So will I be bested by a Schlage again? Yup. Prolly.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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mdc5150

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 1113

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:35 pm

Post Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:05 pm

Re: Feeling defeated

This Master 140 is killing me. It gives me no feedback, there is no false set no definite feeling. I have picked countless 140's both hobby picking and at work. But this lock won't budge. And I'm a fairly good picker.

it happens to us all.
20150222_210115-1.jpg
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escher7

Active Member

Posts: 696

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:20 am

Location: Canada

Post Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:07 am

Re: Feeling defeated

I would like to see just one tv lock pick take more than a couple of seconds. Even when they actually use a tension tool and look authentic, it takes no time at all. And this includes scenes with commercial doors that would obviously have high security cylinders. I did see one where the guy said "This is one of those new fangled dimple locks and it will take forever to pick it".

Picking locks for me is like shooting pool - there are on days and off days.
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gibson

Familiar Face

Posts: 50

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:22 pm

Location: southeast new york

Post Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:52 am

Re: Feeling defeated

Don't let it get you down! From time to time I'll pick up a lock from my collection that I've picked lots of times, and for some reason got no luck opening them (I've had this happen to me today with an American barrel lock - Grrrr!). There were times on the road when I'd run into what I'd call Mede-Kwiks. You go to open a Kwikset, and all of a sudden it quickly turns into a Medeco. Built up grit, over application of graphite (made worse by an application of WD-40), just a lack of use can make a lock a real pain to pick. Just chalk it up to experience - it happens to all of locksmiths sooner or later. In the meantime, it gives you an excellent excuse to splurge on a couple of Sargent cylinders to practice up on!
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Papa Gleb

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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:10 am

Location: Brooklyn, NY

Post Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:17 pm

Re: Feeling defeated

Dave, dont feel bad mate. It has or will happen to us all. I am not a locksmith but when ever I pick a lock for someone or fix a draw etc I always tell the clients to give me my work space and that breathing down my neck will only cause delays or give chance for a screw up. So far everyone understands without any issues. I also filter out the clients and avoid those that will be headaches in weeks to come. You know those, the ones that will call you the next day to say the there is a tiny paint ship next to the installation you did or that their key is dirty lol. Yea those people.

Harvey listed a great plan of attach which I think everyone should have. The key is to find the weakness which pretty much all security systems have even if you have to climb the side of the house to get to an open window lol.
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jharveee

Prolific Poster

Posts: 999

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:14 am

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:59 pm

Re: Feeling defeated

Oh my!
That list is not complete, just ramblings off the top of my head.
Did you try to impression the lock?
How bout just un-screwing the cylinder?
Your list will get longer with the more skills and techniques you pick up.
Many others have much longer lists.
I used to carry a written list to help remember tricks I'd learned from jobs before.
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rai

Contributor
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Posts: 561

Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:52 am

Location: minneapolis

Post Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:38 pm

Re: Feeling defeated

I used to say that if you cant pick the lock ( common pin tumbler ) then the only sure way is impressioning, but locks gummed up with graphite resist impressioning too.
Once opening a shop with a common schlage C on the door, I couldnt' get any feedback until I found a used motor oil jar and put the oil on a piece of sweeper bristle I found nearby, and repeatedly sent the oily end into the keyway and pulled it out black, wiped and oiled it and repeated until I finally could pick the thing.

its my belief that there probably were some very long pins in that lock. Pickers always want to lift pins, but some pins are so long that any lift is too much.
its pretty chilly in minnesota right now, and your in indy? I will just assume that that may have been an issue too. too bad you never even got the chance to see the key to know if one pin was very deep

Zeva? huh I havent watched that show in years and never saw the lockpicking there. Always wondered how she got the Clearance to be around naval spooks, after the USS Liberty, the plutonium from the apollo site and things like jonathon pollard and the pre knowlege of the 911 plot in bradenton fla well I guess they own us, since angleton let them in the door.

I always liked the rockford files for picking edgework.
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Papa Gleb

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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:10 am

Location: Brooklyn, NY

Post Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:02 pm

Re: Feeling defeated

Harvey, care to post that list if you still have it.

Umm sorry but what or who is Zeva? Times like this make me feel like the immigrant I am or was 23 years ago :)
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