Question on Door Adjustment

[Oldfast]

So I'm starting to take interest in this business of tweakin' doors.

All the different problems that can arise -
narrowing down the symptom to a cause -
and all the tricks & techniques for fixin' em.

For adjusting a door vertically it seems the first (and easiest) fix is to
look to the screws - be it simply tightening them or replacing some
with longer ones that will go beyond the jam and tie into the 2x4's

If this doesn't do the trick, I'd assume the other options are:
shims between the leaf & jam, or bending the hinges.

Been reading all the articles I can find online. Here's one...
http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2008/09/ ... ng-hinges/
I've had success with both these techniques,
but I'd love to hear your take on them.
Good? Bad? Cautions when doing it?

[mdc5150]

Sometimes screw holes strip out and you have to go a size larger. After that if they strip out you can clean out the holes with a drill bit and fill with the right sized dowel and glue, then redial the holes. This sounds nice but it is not as nice as fresh prep.

I ran into a problem about 6 months ago where the new hinges would not allow me to properly adjust the door. No matter what I did the door stuck out to wide to close properly. I got schooled from the other locksmith that I work with. It was a wood frame, so he deepened the mortise on the frame so the hinges sucked the door even more. That door works like a charm now.

[Oldfast]

Couple of good points there Matt. Thank you.

On the doweling: I realize it varies depending on what you're working with, but could you elaborate?
On average, what size doweling? The corresponding drill bit size for it? How deep do you usually go?

And speeking of screws: I have a difficult time finding 2 1/2 - 3 inch screws with the correct size head.
They tend to be too small for some hinge holes. Any suggestions? I'd prefer star or square bit if possible.

[Doogs]

You picked a complex subject there Mike as doors require "tweaking" in many different ways.

First is diagnosing the problem which there are many possibilities. Sag/settling (door and frame), hinge binding, hinge wear, warpage ( twisting, cupping). kick out/kick in, shrinkage/expansion.

So now we have the terms (probably missed a couple) we have to know the corrective measures or if replacement is required, and yes sometimes you just have to rip them out and put a new one in, especially if you have severe cases of warpage or kick in/out. This could be the door or the casing with these problems.

The first thing to check is if the jambs (frame) are plumb(vertcall) in both axis and is it level (Header and sill) these are easily checked with a framing square and level. Remember there are two planes to check in the vertical the edges (where the casing (trim) gets fastened and the inside flats (sides where the hinges and strike plates go).next is if the door square and free of warps or cups.

Sag:
Generally this is from stripped screws, hinge wear or a poorly constructed or door.
If it's stripped screws there's several ways to do this. longer screws, oversize screws, drill amd plug, wedges ,shave down a shim or piece of wood to a taper larger than the hole then apply glue and tap in with hammer let set then trim with chisel. Or use plastic wall plugs in a pinch.
If it's the hinges you could replace them or use hinge tools to reset the gapping or tighten the ferrules. http://shop.justdoortoolz.com/product.s ... tegoryId=7
Alternatively you can use the method you posted

Now to the actual door sagging.
Usually this requires replacement if severe but the trusty hand plane is by far the simplest method to correct this. Do not plane the material from the latch area as this will alter your backset! Take the excess from the hinge side and re-mortise the hinges if necessary. You can safely plane any of the four corners.
If it's say a two or six panel door where the rails and stiles have loosened over the years you may be able to disassemble or partially disassemble then re-square and glue the carcass and save the door (do not glue the panels to the carcass). This is a little work heavy and I'll skip the method required. You can find out about panel door construction on the web. Occasionally what appears to be door sag is in fact a result of house settling and the building shifting out of plumb level use your level and square to verify and if necessary remove the door, jambs and casing and re-install plumb and square ensuring you don't get binding on the floor. when removing old casing a good tip is to use a utility knife and score along the edges preventing paint tear-out on the walls.Another is to pull the nails out through the back of the trim to prevent tear-out.
Qyick fixes include shifting the strike plate or hinges up or down and of course planing.

Hinge binding:
There's several ways this occurs; most commonly lack/loss of plumb or warpage in the jamb/door excessive inset/mortising either in depth or vertical alignment on either of the two axis. twisted hinges due to poor installation/mortising. check to make sure the hinges are flush with the jamb/door edge and are inline with each other on the door and casing. Verify the jamb/door is plumb and free of twists or warps adjust the hinges laterally to make up for minor variances.

Kick in/out:
This is caused by kicking/forcing the door or by jamming objects in the way of the door when trying to opem/close it. It can also be caused by warped doors or jambs. Indications are gapping at the top or bottom strike side or uneven alignmnet with the door stop. Replumb jambs where necessary replace doors if they are warped (sometimes you can cheat by removing the door stop and reattaching it in alignment with the door) Steel exterior doors may be straightened by flexing the door in the opposite direction but usually the integrity has been lost and replacement is necessary at some point.

Shrinkage and warpage:
As you pointed out these are usuallyseasonal problems and the trick is to give yourself as much play as possible without having a sloppy installation. Options may to find a door with a more stable constuction whether wood or some some other material.

The key to any door repair is to diagnose the problem and apply the suitable remedy. Unfortunately the tricks of the trade tend to require years of experience but the knowledge is out there should you choose to search for it. I've been a carpenteer for 35 + years and I still pick up new tricks here and there. so don't get frustrated and feel free to ask me any questiopns you may have i'm here to help.

I hope this post makes sense if not I'll try to clear up any questions anyone has.

Cheers: Mike

[Oldfast]

Wow Doogs! Truly appreciate you taking the time you did. So many years of
experience (and a complex subject) and tryn' to put it into some words for us.

I also realize you could take any one of these symptoms you've talked about
and easily write several pages on it, lol. It's a lot to take in. I've read it 3 times.

One thing I can tell is that you don't cut corners. Quality work - that's great!
Nowadays there's an 'easy pill' for everything. I can see you reluctantly pop
it only if you're forced to. No half-ass work from you. Your pride shows.

[Doogs]

Sorry for all the typos and such Mike. I also wanted to do some photos but it was already getting pretty long and you're right I really didn't get into the nitty gritty of things.
If you or anyone else would like me to clarify a point or two or has general questions shoot me a PM and I'll do my best to add it here in a hopefully more concise and clear manner.

Cheers.

[mdc5150]

Mike, to answer your question for me, I used to keep a kit with different sizes of dowel, 3" hinge screws with square heads, and wood color touch up sticks.

The screws I just picked up at Home Depot.

[Mikeh727]

Wow Doogs! Truly appreciate you taking the time you did. So many years of
experience (and a complex subject) and tryn' to put it into some words for us.

I also realize you could take any one of these symptoms you've talked about
and easily write several pages on it, lol. It's a lot to take in. I've read it 3 times.

One thing I can tell is that you don't cut corners. Quality work - that's great!
Nowadays there's an 'easy pill' for everything. I can see you reluctantly pop
it only if you're forced to. No half-ass work from you. Your pride shows.

Doogs,

What Oldfast said! I've been lurking on this thread and taking it all in. My house is over 100 years old and we're having some door issues I didn't know how to easily fix. Your detailed response has given me some much needed information. What I've learned is that even though I'm fairly handy, I'm going to hire the work out to a professional. What I thought might be a simple fix probably requires a trained eye to diagnose and repair correctly (I'm pretty sure the issues are due to the house settling). So, THANK YOU for saving me the hours of frustration that I would have put into the job doing work that is beyond my ability to do well, just to eventually hire a professional to fix my mistakes. And Oldfast, thanks for asking the question!

Cheers,

-Another Mike

[Doogs]

What Oldfast said! I've been lurking on this thread and taking it all in. My house is over 100 years old and we're having some door issues I didn't know how to easily fix. Your detailed response has given me some much needed information. What I've learned is that even though I'm fairly handy, I'm going to hire the work out to a professional. What I thought might be a simple fix probably requires a trained eye to diagnose and repair correctly (I'm pretty sure the issues are due to the house settling). So, THANK YOU for saving me the hours of frustration that I would have put into the job doing work that is beyond my ability to do well, just to eventually hire a professional to fix my mistakes. And Oldfast, thanks for asking the question!

Cheers,

-Another Mike[/quote]

Mike I hope I didn't scare you off from doing it yourself. With a little patience and some guidance it's really not all that difficult. Don't be afraid of putting some effort into it and at least giving it a shot. If you do screw up it will only be one door and not a big deal. If you give it a shot and get it to work it's an incredible ego boost and will give the confidence to keep working at it. Do a little research and wrap your head around the basic skills and the worst that will happen is you'll have to hire a carpenter and it won't cost anymore than it would if you didn't try.

Hint: A good hand plane is your best friend when it comes to those old ladies, just remember small steps and a gentle touch..

Good luck with your reno's. There's something special about century homes! I doubt I could live in a new build as they just lack the character of something old even if they give you a headache LOL.

ETA: looks like I screwed up the quote on my edit

[Rlhelms57]

Personally i don't like either the hinge tweaker or the hinge doctor. I find that their method is sometimes to much, and does not give me fine control. Both those units bend both halves of the hinge the jamb side and door side as well. I found a long time ago that if one takes a good quality crescent wrench, and grinds the jaws until they have a curved look so that they bit down on the hinge knuckle. What i find very effective is to close the door, and carefully examine the reveal around the door if it shows that it is too tight on one side or the other then i start with that. Many times i remove the center hinge screw on the top hinge if it is sagging as replace it with a 3" long screw into the king stud. Then i remove the pin on that hinge and i bend the knuckle on the door hinge. Toward the jamb to push the door outward, and away from the jamb to move it back as in the case of a sagging door. Open the door and put your shoulder against it gently, and adjust in forward or backwards until the hinge knuckles line up again. slid the pin back and see how far the adjustment moved the door. ymmv. But this method work very nicely and allow a very subtle and fine adjustment.

Sometimes you have to move the center hings about half the distance of the top hinge to get it right on.

[Oldfast]

Rlhelms57.... thanks for your thoughts! Much of what I've been doing is exactly as you've outlined.
Not only do 3" screws sometimes solve a problem, but should be there anyway for security & structure.

I haven't felt the need to grind/shape my crescent wrench yet, but that's not a bad idea.
Also, I wouldn't say I've refined my methods to a nice "subtle and fine adjustments" just yet, lol.
Suppose this will come with time. But I'll tell ya... it's easy to fix one problem while creating another. ha!

[Rlhelms57]

Yes that is true. One issue leads to another for sure. The crescent wrench tool was an invention my uncle designed. He spend 50 years as a door smith installing interlock weatherstripping, hanging doors, and installing Baldwin mortise locks. He passed away a few years back I was fortunate to spend some quality time with him. He was a wizard with doors. My brother took over his business. Now he is the wizard. I soak up all I can.