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How does GWiens2001 have fun???

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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:12 am

How does GWiens2001 have fun???

How does GWiens2001 have fun?

Step one:

Cut blanks into keys. Two required. (One change, one control).

Step two:

Calculate the pin stacks:

IMG_5218.jpg


IMG_5219.jpg


Step three:

Combinate and cap core.

IMG_5220.jpg


Step four:

Test keys to ensure they work properly.

IMG_5222.jpg


Step five:

Hey Xeeeooooo!Can you do me a favor? I got a core I need removed.

IMG_5221.jpg


Gordon
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Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Anarchy_won

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:37 am

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

GW I dont see any security pin's in there :P
(17:44:28) HAL 9000 Sez: LockSport is full of children who throw fits because low priced low security products sold in discount department stores do not meet their arbitrary expectations.
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jones

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:08 am

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

The key on the left looks like my last competitor's great grand master key to the town 91919
His was on an SC-1 blank tho, I think he was mad at MACS
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Mikeh727

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:51 am

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

Gordon,

1) Too much time on your hands.

2) Jealous that I don't have your skills.

Nice!

-Mike
I have an amazing grasp of the obvious. Beyond that, not so much.
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andrex66it

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:24 am

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

Nice work Gordon!

I know I'm gonna show my noobness but I have to ask this question (please be gentle...)

Do pin stacks like these make the lock easier to pick, somehow creating multiple shear lines?
Oh and btw, what's the name of the added "pins"? Is it master pins?
Andrea

Edit:

I did a little search and I found that each master pin you add to a pin stack creates a new shear line.
In case of a 5 pin lock with one master pin for each pin stack is 2x2x2x2x2=32 differents shear lines. Is this correct?
There is some side-effect while picking, like it's easier to overset or something like this?

I left my questions above on purpose because I'm still a noob :mrgreen:
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mercurial

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:27 am

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

In a standard pin tumbler lock, adding master wafers (pins) does make them easier to pick. They create more shear lines as you said & the more shear lines available, the easier the lock is to pick. For this reason, master key systems are usually designed to minimise the number of master wafers used.

Things are a bit different when it comes to an SFIC core, like a BEST. Whilst there are more pins present in each stack, if a lock is combinated such that there is only one operating key & one control key, then the presence of the extra pins in each stack does not make the lock easier to pick & in fact often makes it harder.

This is because there are two physically distinct shear lines. Unless one of these cylinders is master keyed, there is only one split in the pin stack that can be aligned at the operating shear line & another that can align with the control shear line.

When tensioning a BEST core (using a standard tension wrench), there is usually tension applied to both the operating & control shear lines[EDIT : this is not the case, see post by Xeo below]. This means when picking you can end up setting some pin stacks to the operating shear line & others to the control line & it is impossible to feel the difference between the two[edit: although it can be tricky, it is possible to ascertain which shear line you are dealing with]. Unless all pins are set to one shear line or the other, the plug will not turn. This is what can make a lock with multiple shear lines harder to pick than a standard pin tumbler lock.

There are special tension wrenches that are designed to only apply tension to the control shear line.

The term master wafer is used interchangeably with the term master pin.

The pin that touches the key is usually referred to as a "bottom pin", and master wafers for the operating shear line are placed directly on top of the bottom pin. Next is the "buildup pin", sometimes referred to as the "control pin" & finally there is a "top pin" on top of that. The length of each pin stack is supposed to remain constant, so different sized top pins are used, depending on the total length of the other pins.

These links contain some useful pictures & further explanation :

http://www.keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=9460

http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/sfic/

http://kstoerz.com/locksport/Schlage_SFIC_manual_Dec_2007.pdf

There is also a type of lock that uses multiple shear lines in the same manner as a BEST lock, but both shear lines are used to operate the lock, these are called master ring cylinders & they allow master keying without the decrease in security that is normally caused by using master wafers.

Hope that helps,

...Mark
Last edited by mercurial on Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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andrex66it

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:42 am

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

Hello Mark, thank you for the thorough reply! I'm going to read the links you kindly provided.
Thank you again,
Andrea
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jeffmoss26

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:35 am

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

That IS fun, especially after dealing with computers all day.
The keyway however, is pure evil!! Paging xeo!
macgng: i just thought the cat was a real tiny bear
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
xeo: i root for the kernel
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xeo

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:12 pm

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

Oh noes! Keep it away from me!

DoNotWant1.jpg
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The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

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xeo

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:16 pm

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

mercurial wrote:When tensioning a BEST core (using a standard tension wrench), there is usually tension applied to both the operating & control shear lines. This means when picking you can end up setting some pin stacks to the operating shear line & others to the control line & it is impossible to feel the difference between the two. Unless all pins are set to one shear line or the other, the plug will not turn. This is what can make a lock with multiple shear lines harder to pick than a standard pin tumbler lock.


Tension is not simultaneously applied to both shearlines. It is applied to the binding pinstack. Whether or not that binding pinstack corresponds to control or operating is a different story. You can change where the force is applied (to either operating or control) by cleverly manipulating the pins. It is possible to know when you're switching shearlines. Pins will drop, the plug will jolt, other pinstacks previously nonbinding are now binding. Previous pinstacks setting at certain heights change the height they set. There is a method and madness to picking them consistantly to control or operating at will, but it can be a very intense process requiring lots of time and patience. Of course on some of these older worn out locks it is just downright impossible, but that goes without saying.

In the case of Gordon's lock here, I would envision those very deep cuts being very hard to forcefully move higher providing a clue to the picker as to the bitting configuration of either the operating or control line. Having that information of which pinstacks are showing very deep cuts can allow you to either avoid setting them higher or purposefully set them higher to access control or operating (you won't know which one it is until you actually get the plug to turn). The control bitting may also be a combination of forcing those deep cuts higher and letting them stay set at a lower height, the lock will let you discover this through trial and error.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

░░░░░░░░░░░░░Image
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mercurial

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:08 pm

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

Xeo : good point, thanks for the correction, & LOL(!) to the cat pic!
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xeo

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:00 pm

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

Haha, yeah love those cat pics.

Moved the topic to BEST forum.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

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Oldfast

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:23 pm

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

Cool work there Gordon! Xeo's cat says it all. Don't send that monstrosity to me either!! lol
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:19 am

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

This one
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Shearlock

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Post Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:01 pm

Re: How does GWiens2001 have fun???

Wow, you're a beast! I look forward to getting to the point that I'm purposely designing such traps for myself. ;)
Image
xeo: One day you're gonna come home and find your wife laying in bed naked with a medeco biaxial locking her chastity belt...

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