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Help figuring out control key code

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9Point

Newbie

Posts: 6

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:12 pm

Location: Southwest MI

Post Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:29 pm

Help figuring out control key code

New here. Not a lock picker. Years ago I got some BEST padlocks, SFIC cores, without any keys. Not having a clue where to begin, I destroyed one and got the core out intact. Then quit and left them sit. This was before I had internet to google search (how I found this site)

I came across them again and decided to see what I could do to find keys for them. I only recently heard of Control Keys, depth keys, shear lines, shimming, key codes, different key ways, so a complete noobie.

The locks all have the same stamping on the core, so I assume they are keyed alike.

I have determined they are C key way, and 6 pins. I do not know cut series; A2, A3, or A4. Guessing A2 from what I have read online.


I found a post here about shimming to control. After many hours (playing with it now and then) I finally have it shimmed to control. I used a paper clip through the bottom hole and metal from a security tag. I had no feel and when the shim move it was a surprise.


Since it is shimmed, how can I figure out the cut code? I do not have any depth keys or even a way to cut keys.


I am wondering if I took a small dowel of known length, that fit the bottom holes, measured each pin hole with the dowel in, measured the core top to bottom and determined how much dowel was in each hole, I would have the amount from the bottom pin to the bottom of the core. Next I could pull the shim, put a key blank in and determine the distance from the bottom of the key to the bottom of the core (I should have done this first) . Subtract this from my pin column bottom pin, to bottom of the core measurements, and have key cut measurements? Then these could be compared to a cut chart and a key code determined. Will this work?


If this will work, to order a key I put the cut numbers in order from tip to bow and order a BEST C key way with that cut?


I considered punching the pins out from the bottom, but fear they would fly all over and I would not know they order they came out. Any easy way to do this and not lose the pins or their order? The only experience I have with pins is redoing a Weiser lock with a rekey kit.


I am not sure how to determine an operating key. There is a disc on the back held on by two pins. So no access to the shear line with out removing this disc. Which I am not sure how, other than grinding off the tops to the pins.


I am not opposed to destroying the core to get the infromation to get keys for the remaining locks made. :sfic:
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jharveee

Prolific Poster

Posts: 870

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Help figuring out control key code

https://youtu.be/MNPZwheGJ5Q
Try this youtube link.
Do you have tools and pins for re-keying?
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Riyame

Keeper of the Bests / Supreme Overlord of Small Format Interchangeable Picking Nightmares

Posts: 2024

Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:16 pm

Location: Canada

Post Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: Help figuring out control key code

Do not remove the back plate on the core. There is no reason to do that and you will have a greater risk of messing up the pins than if they were punched out from the bottom.

The only way to do this properly is to eject the pins from the bottom. The thinnest pins are 0.025" thick so sticking something in the bottom and trying to measure the length is not going to work.

You did not add a location to your profile but there are a few members in the USA and I am in Canada that have the ability to decode and cut keys for you.

If the cores are all marked the same then the same operating and control keys should work. These would be keys that only work on that core and are not true keys to that master system.
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9Point

Newbie

Posts: 6

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:12 pm

Location: Southwest MI

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:26 am

Re: Help figuring out control key code

jharveee wrote:https://youtu.be/MNPZwheGJ5Q
Try this youtube link.
Do you have tools and pins for re-keying?



Thanks for the link.

That shows me I can disassemble and not have pins flying everywhere. I assume the caps are one time use. What about the springs?


I do not have proper tools or any rekeying parts.
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9Point

Newbie

Posts: 6

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:12 pm

Location: Southwest MI

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Help figuring out control key code

Riyame wrote:Do not remove the back plate on the core. There is no reason to do that and you will have a greater risk of messing up the pins than if they were punched out from the bottom.

The only way to do this properly is to eject the pins from the bottom. The thinnest pins are 0.025" thick so sticking something in the bottom and trying to measure the length is not going to work.

You did not add a location to your profile but there are a few members in the USA and I am in Canada that have the ability to decode and cut keys for you.

If the cores are all marked the same then the same operating and control keys should work. These would be keys that only work on that core and are not true keys to that master system.



I added my location.

I am guessing if the pins were carefully removed a control key code could be determined and possibly multiple working operating keys with different codes (if more than one cut depth would work for each pin barrel, such as for Master, Sub Master, and Operating key) In other words, I might combine the codes for Master and Operating and have a working key, but not the one designed for the system.
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jharveee

Prolific Poster

Posts: 870

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:14 pm

Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:54 am

Re: Help figuring out control key code

Yes is my short answer. As to decoding keys.

By the time you buy the pinning kit and capping tools, I think you'll be money ahead having them done by someone already set up to do them. Depends on how many.
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jeffmoss26

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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:21 am

Location: Cleveland, OH

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: Help figuring out control key code

I am in Ohio and would be happy to decode your cores. Shoot me a PM
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9Point

Newbie

Posts: 6

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:12 pm

Location: Southwest MI

Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:14 pm

Re: Help figuring out control key code

jharveee wrote:Yes is my short answer. As to decoding keys.

By the time you buy the pinning kit and capping tools, I think you'll be money ahead having them done by someone already set up to do them. Depends on how many.



I do not see the need for a pinning kit or capping tool. If I disassemble the core, to measure the pins, to try and reverse engineer the key codes, I would not repin it to something else or even put it back together, since I do not have a lock to install it in.


I am thinking I could use the method in the utube linked in post #2 and a 1/16" pin punch to get it apart. Then measure each pin as removed from each barrel. I have calipers and a micrometer.
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9Point

Newbie

Posts: 6

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:12 pm

Location: Southwest MI

Post Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:15 pm

Re: Help figuring out control key code

jeffmoss26 wrote:I am in Ohio and would be happy to decode your cores. Shoot me a PM
PM sent
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malfunctionjunction

Newbie

Posts: 18

Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 9:52 pm

Location: MN

Post Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:43 pm

Re: Help figuring out control key code

The springs, like the caps, are one time use. when you punch the pins out, you compress the spring as it's between the pins you're striking and the cap you're forcing out, and thus subjected to the same force you're using to ram the cap out. I've seen some that look like you could probably reuse them, but most of the time they're squashed. I've actually seen people stretch the squashed springs back out and reuse the caps with moderate success, but personally I wouldn't bother given that the price of an envelope of springs and an envelope of caps is a couple bucks.

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