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Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

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innerpicked

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Post Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:57 am

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

Decided to take mine apart, however I have come into issues reassembling it. I have a nearly identical 0881, keyed to 102. I put the spacers and discs in identically to how you have, all of the gates in the discs and the notches in the spacers lined up on one of the cuts in the disc "sleeve". I put the sidebars in the notches, and pushed into the lock, with the locking balls and shackle in place, lining up the side with the disc gates to the side with the notch for the sidebar inside the lock. However my key will not open the lock, it just stops as if it was not the right key. However, the disc gates all line up then the disc pack is turned with a key outside of the lock. Any ideas?
(21:42:51) PhoneMan: restraints? the GF and I do those
(21:42:59) PhoneMan: wait, um...
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twenglish 1

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Post Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:45 am

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

First thing I did was test the disk pack before inserting it the gates to one side bar and the notches in the spacers to the other side bar, make sure all the disks are inserted with the numbers facing outward (towards where the key goes) I positioned the shackle unlocked and aligned all the gates so it was unlocked I then inserted it a 1/4 turn past where the gate sidebar locks into the lock body
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innerpicked

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Post Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:10 am

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

twenglish 1 wrote:First thing I did was test the disk pack before inserting it the gates to one side bar and the notches in the spacers to the other side bar, make sure all the disks are inserted with the numbers facing outward (towards where the key goes) I positioned the shackle unlocked and aligned all the gates so it was unlocked I then inserted it a 1/4 turn past where the gate sidebar locks into the lock body

Having the gates on one side and the spacer notches on the other made it work. Thanks for the help. :smile:
(21:42:51) PhoneMan: restraints? the GF and I do those
(21:42:59) PhoneMan: wait, um...
ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ
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twenglish 1

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Post Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:09 pm

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

Glad I could help, definitely took me some messing around to get mine working right after I disassembled it, I tried to take the disk pack out carefully but some of the disks and spacers fell out. Anyone know if they sell just the disks for rekeying?
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Papa Gleb

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Post Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

Finally got round to taking these pics. The long ass chains x2 sure make a loud ring.
Notice that black O ring inside the shackle. Never saw that before. I would imagine these are there to prevent the elements from going inside but they can still go inside by the hole on the side used to remove the cap.
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tpark

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Post Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:55 pm

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

Papa Gleb wrote:Finally got round to taking these pics. The long ass chains x2 sure make a loud ring.
Notice that black O ring inside the shackle. Never saw that before. I would imagine these are there to prevent the elements from going inside but they can still go inside by the hole on the side used to remove the cap.


So the O ring doesn't cover the set screw? It almost looks like it's lined up with the cap screw hole location on my lock. None of mine have the O ring. What key does that lock use?

Thanks for sharing the pictures! The lock that I purchased new had no chain on it - I wonder if the lock is more inclined to fill with water if a chain is attached, because the pop rivet blocks the drain hole on the bottom of the lock.
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Papa Gleb

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Post Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:44 pm

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

The O ring doesnt line up but it does pretrude onto the hole and set screw but still enough space to get to the set screw.

As for the chain, thats good logic plus may explain why there is an O ring in the first place.

The key is a 102. I also have another CR (102) also the newer body but that doesnt have an O ring, it doesnt even have a groove for an O ring so there is no chance someone could have just stuffed one in this lock.
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tpark

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Post Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:17 pm

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

Papa Gleb wrote:The O ring doesnt line up but it does pretrude onto the hole and set screw but still enough space to get to the set screw.

As for the chain, thats good logic plus may explain why there is an O ring in the first place.

The key is a 102. I also have another CR (102) also the newer body but that doesnt have an O ring, it doesnt even have a groove for an O ring so there is no chance someone could have just stuffed one in this lock.


Thanks for the info - it would be interesting to know what the letters on the lock mean. I'm going to guess that CR identifies the railroad that the lock is from, and the other letters identify what variant of the lock it is. 102 seems to be a common lock. If a lock was destined for use for a place that had a lot of precipitation and had significant freezing weather, the seal would make more sense than in a place that was warmer and drier.
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tpark

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Post Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

Riyame wrote:I think it is only the 105 locks that can be locked open from what has been seen before.

You could be right - I wonder if all 105's are lockable in the open position, or if it is only certain ones. Also, is the disk that rotates the cylinder the innermost one? This would make sense to me from a security viewpoint, but for regular operation it wouldn't make any difference.
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GWiens2001

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Post Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:24 pm

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

At least one of those has a roll pin in the front of the lock that must be removed for disassembly. In that tiny hole at the top front of the lock.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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twenglish 1

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Post Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:54 pm

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

My 105 is opened by turning the innermost disk, and the cap is held on by the rollpin, when did they start using the set screw inside the shackle hole?
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GWiens2001

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Post Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

twenglish 1 wrote:My 105 is opened by turning the innermost disk, and the cap is held on by the rollpin, when did they start using the set screw inside the shackle hole?


Don't know the year they changed, but the roll-pin version is older. Then they added the o-ring, then the set screw. At least if I was told correctly. (Or remembered what I was told correctly).

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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twenglish 1

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Post Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:10 pm

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

The roll pin definetly seems like a big security flaw at least based off how easy I was able to remove it on mine
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tpark

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Post Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:29 pm

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

twenglish 1 wrote:The roll pin definetly seems like a big security flaw at least based off how easy I was able to remove it on mine

The pin came out easily on one of mine too. The screw cap on the top isn't made of hardened metal (at least not on the one that I drilled) so if you have a lock that has a hard to remove the pin, it's possible to drill where the pin goes into the cap, and get the pin out that way. The set screw method is much better since it makes the lock easy to disassemble if you can open it.
Some of the newer locks don't seem to have as good plating as the older ones, as the chrome appears to have more of a peeling problem. Some of the locks show signs of abuse and forced removal attempts such as damaged disks or significant dents in the locking balls, but they are clearly really tough. I did have to flatten/file the disks on one of the locks to get it to work properly again.

The observations of GWiens2001 make me think that the locks can be customized if you're buying enough of them. My new lock might actually be from old stock, but in new condition.
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twenglish 1

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Post Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:48 pm

Re: Finally got my hands on a S&G Environmental

Just curious, how did you remove the roll pin from yours? And mine also appears to have the chrome peeling off the shackle, body is in excellent shape, first thing I noticed when I got it was the disks appeared very scratched up, probably from previous picking attempts
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