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Kaba eXpert Gutting

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adi_picker

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Posts: 51

Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 am

Location: Australia

Post Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:05 am

Kaba eXpert Gutting

G'day Guys,

Second post on this forum, also placed a post in the introduction thread.

Noticed someone was looking for the guy shots of the KABA 20, since they've gone missing from the imagehost. Well, its not a 20, but you get the idea. Some details on the eXpert can be found here. I'm assuming its AU only, and probably has another name elsewhere in the world, possibly the Quattro? If anyone can fill me in here, it would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the lack of focus, this was the very first day I had my new camera, and it never occurred to me to check the images before I re-assembled the lock.

Bits everywhere! In this photo, you can see the plug with pins held in with grease, the body (in brass), its cover, my homemade follower, the driver pins, and the springs I purchased to replace all the ones I bent taking it apart!

Image

Heres one side of the plug with the pins and key inserted. As mentioned above, to get all the pins to stay in when I slid the plug back into the body I used rubber grease. This is the pink gloop you can see.

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The other side of the sub assembled plug.

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A shot from above.

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The first of the pin shots. There were 4 rows of pins, at roughly 1oclock, 5oclock, 7oclock and 11oclock. These pins were the pointed ones and IIRC (its been about 6 months since I pulled it to bits) interfaced with the millings on the side of the key.

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The second of the pin shots. These are the pins that interfaced with the millings on the L and R of the top / bottom of the key (its reversible, so there are 8 sets of millings on the key for the four rows of pins).

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A shot of the cylinder and its cover. The two larger holes situated on the top are for the bars that fix the cylinder to the retainer that suits the lock. In my case, I have it fitted to an AU Padlock IC, so those bars fitted into the brass retainer, which you can see in later shots.

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Another (out of focus :/) shot of the cylinder.

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Driver pins and springs. I had trouble re-assembling the lock at first, as I could get it all back together, but the key would get stuck in the lock. I had noticed that the driver pins were different sizes, but since this was way back when I had just started picking, I assumed they were like that to make it more difficult to pick. Not so. Pin stacks in this lock need to be balanced, as there is not enough room for the large pins coupled with the large drivers, and they foul against the outer cover, trapping the key. Thanks to LockSmithArmy on Youtube, whom I sent PMs to to find this out. You can see his video of him picking a KABA Penta (The same as this eXpert, but with 5 rows of pins instead of 4) here.

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Reassembly. This is the cylinder with the plug and key inserted. I slowly pressed the cover back on while adding drivers and springs. All pins are slightly offset to one another to allow this, if ever so slightly. When I asked my local KABA lockie how he does it, he proudly showed me his $1000 KABA jig, and explained that I would never get it back together without one ;)

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Assembled into an ABUS Rock 83/55.

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And lastly, a close shot of the assembled lock. You can see the brass retainer I was rabbiting about on above. You can also see the hole I have filled with epoxy. This is where I drilled it when I accidentely locked it in a state where the key would not turn the padlocks cam. I drilled here, where there is no anti drill inserts, or pins in the way, and eventually hit the retaining screw, which undid, and released the lock. Yes really.. All that security in the lock, foiled by a 2mm drillbit. I have also used this method on quite a number of other AU IC padlocks with success, but have noted that the latest revisions of them (last 6 months or so) seem to include anti drill inserts here. On regular pin tumbler locks drilling here will destroy the springs, but they are easily replaced.

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Anyway, hope thats of interest to some of you guys. Best of luck picking it! These images are hosted on my own host, so they should be around for millenia to come, or until I stop paying the bill.

-adi_picker
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

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Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 am

Location: Arizona, United States

Post Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:36 pm

Re: Kaba eXpert Gutting

Nice. Wondered how the heck to get those back together. Have several different Kaba locks, including the Xpert. Amazing how they can fit all those parts in such a compact package.

Thanks for the pics, adi_picker. Any chance of a pic of the $1000 Kaba jig for assembly? I also like doing things that 'experts' say can't be done.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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huxleypig

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The Prestigious and Powerful Porcine Prelate

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Location: West Mids, UK

Post Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:07 pm

Re: Kaba eXpert Gutting

Dismantling Kaba's is a horrible exercise. I do it in a plastic bag now. The pins with the pointy ends - they make life a little trickier to pick but I think their main purpose was to defeat foil impressioning? Has anyone heard that?
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adi_picker

Familiar Face

Posts: 51

Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 am

Location: Australia

Post Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Kaba eXpert Gutting

Could be correct there Huxley. Of course when I pulled it apart the first time I spilled pins everywhere, and had no order whatsoever. When I first tried to piece it all back together, I had to try the pins in a lot of different configurations to get it all right, and found that the pointy and non-pointy were interchangable, bar one row of millings on the key. This is the one on the side, where there millings are so small, only the pointed pins interface correctly with it. There is a lot of 'foiling' vids specifcally for the eXpert on Youtube though.. Not sure how many are legit, but would have to assume at least a handful. Never bothered to try it yet myself, maybe in a future post If I get bored.

-adi_picker
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Patrick Star

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Post Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:52 pm

Re: Kaba eXpert Gutting

What sort of driver pins do these things have? Can't really tell from the picture.
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adi_picker

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Posts: 51

Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 am

Location: Australia

Post Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:07 am

Re: Kaba eXpert Gutting

Very small brass, hollow on one side to accomodate the spring. Also as mentioned, they are balanced stacks, so if you are using the largest keypin, you match it with the corresponding smallest driver pin.

Sorry Patrick, but no more photos to be had, and I aint pulling it apart again without good reason! :axeem:
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Patrick Star

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Post Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:23 am

Re: Kaba eXpert Gutting

Security pins...?
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

Posts: 3436

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 am

Location: Arizona, United States

Post Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:26 pm

Re: Kaba eXpert Gutting

Patrick Star wrote:Security pins...?


Nope. Just well-made enough that it does not really need them. Also, there is not really space for security driver pins. Guess they could make some slight torpedo shapes on the key pins.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.

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