Thanks Werewolf, i read Datagrams paper yesterday, a lot of good info in there.... just at the end, it was the one piece of info he hadn't updated. Someone from another forum helped out and ill post it here for anyone else.
I'm wondering why they still have only 4 pin sizes? I can decode the PIP bitting in seconds by eye and once I have that, a key can be duplicated. Yes it still wont open the lock but if I cut the key w. a hack saw or dremel straight down from bow to tip going around the alpha spring as close as possible, this made key will now satisfy the PIP and Alpha spring security of the lock leaving only the sliders which I believe are only 4 right? Just an idea that jumped to mind so feel free to correct me please!
You may well be correct on the sliders. Non Masterkeyed sliders have 1 true gate and 5 false gates. If the gate on the far left was used as the true gate, the slider would move too far right and jam up on the core housing. The Gate on the far right will never align correctly before the slider bottoms out... so yeah i make it only 4 positions as well.