Let's talk about Medeco pin rotation

[ChemicalRobot]

So as many of you know, I've been trying to get down pin rotation for a while now. I wanted to see if you guys have good ways for rotating without a groove grabber and the like. Right now my strategy is as follows:
(1) Provide an ample amount counter-clockwise TOK tension.
(2) Search for a pin that isn't properly rotated
(3) Remove most (if not all) tension
(4) Rotate the pin by either (a) using a claw pick to manipulate the pin or (b) using a diamond pick to push/pull it into the correct rotation
(5) Go back step (1) until they are all rotated properly
(6) Finally, lift the pins to the shear line

This method has been working OK for me so far. I have a five-pin biaxial which I can normally get in about 4 to 7 minutes (with isn't too bad for a newbie like me), but that's still quite a while. Most of that time is spent just on rotation, so you see why I want to find better means to do so. Also, all of my pins are FORE-style unfortunately (bought 2 cylinders and both had fore only - Lame). So I'm guessing with AFT-style mixed in it will be harder. I have tried the clockwise approach of raising to the shear line and then rotating, but I can't find a good way of providing ample rotation. My guess is that there's too much tension so I can't get past a false gate on the pin.

So, any suggestions that you may have would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

[jailersmith]

If I recall correctly the angle of the key cuts are 30 degrees. Hope that helps your quest.

[magician59]

20 degrees.

[barbarian]

I can't offer any suggestions, but I do have a question.

How do you decide if a pin is caught in a false gate or the real one ??

Very well done by the way. SPPing a Medeco without any tools to help is not easy..

[Farmerfreak]

How do you decide if a pin is caught in a false gate or the real one ??

At first, you may not be able to tell the difference. But once you have sufficiently picked the rest of the lock enough to the point where the pin(s) false gate will be binding directly from the sidebar. You should be able to check what I call the "wiggle factor." Basically when a pin is binding directly from the sidebar (or from being over lifted and binding), it will cease all movement (not wiggling). If however the pin is set to the correct angle it will never completely cease movement (you can wiggle it back and forth with your pick).

So, if you have a pin that isn't moving (wiggling) at all. It's cause is from either over-lifting the pin, or an incorrectly set angle.

[Foo]

Well I'm sure you're looking for something more along the lines of spp, but ever since I got a rather thick city rake from sparrow I've been thinking of trying to make a medeco rake (I've never had much luck with city rakes). I don't know much of the details, which I think are locked away from us heathens on that other site, but they seem to be city like rakes with angled cuts on them. You can see the special rake made for SFI by scrolling down here http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23414. I haven't quite decided what angles to use yet, probably just eyeball 20 degrees aft and fore, gotta read up on medecos, with a dremel.
Thought I'd mention it in case you've never heard of it before. And remember, this is all wild conjecture on my part.

[ChemicalRobot]

You should be able to check what I call the "wiggle factor." Basically when a pin is binding directly from the sidebar (or from being over lifted and binding), it will cease all movement (not wiggling). If however the pin is set to the correct angle it will never completely cease movement (you can wiggle it back and forth with your pick).

Oh my gosh. "Wiggle-factor." Love it! Perfect way of describing it.

[barbarian]

.... You should be able to check what I call the "wiggle factor." ........

Thanks very much.. Makes perfect sense..

[ChemicalRobot]

Thought I'd mention it in case you've never heard of it before. And remember, this is all wild conjecture on my part.

Wild conjecture is the best kind of conjecture. The idea of a rake for rotating is an interesting notion. It seems like you'd have problems with the pins in the back. Say, for instance, your rake ended with a 20 degree left angle and your lock ended with a 20 degree right angle. Might have luck with two separate rakes though. Sort of reminds me of those Medeco rotation picks covered in that Scribd article called Makeup and Breakup of a Medeco Biaxial Lock. At the end the author creates some interesting picks for rotating.

[elbowmacaroni]

Nice link there Chem. good reading, thanks!

[magician59]

Well I'm sure you're looking for something more along the lines of spp, but ever since I got a rather thick city rake from sparrow I've been thinking of trying to make a medeco rake (I've never had much luck with city rakes). I don't know much of the details, which I think are locked away from us heathens on that other site, but they seem to be city like rakes with angled cuts on them. You can see the special rake made for SFI by scrolling down here http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23414. I haven't quite decided what angles to use yet, probably just eyeball 20 degrees aft and fore, gotta read up on medecos, with a dremel.
Thought I'd mention it in case you've never heard of it before. And remember, this is all wild conjecture on my part.

Those are some fine looking tools there, Foo.

[escher7]

Well I'm sure you're looking for something more along the lines of spp, but ever since I got a rather thick city rake from sparrow I've been thinking of trying to make a medeco rake (I've never had much luck with city rakes). I don't know much of the details, which I think are locked away from us heathens on that other site, but they seem to be city like rakes with angled cuts on them. You can see the special rake made for SFI by scrolling down here http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23414. I haven't quite decided what angles to use yet, probably just eyeball 20 degrees aft and fore, gotta read up on medecos, with a dremel.
Thought I'd mention it in case you've never heard of it before. And remember, this is all wild conjecture on my part.

Pics on this link are dead.

[xeo]

Not surprising for a 3 year old thread.

[MBI]

Well I'm sure you're looking for something more along the lines of spp, but ever since I got a rather thick city rake from sparrow I've been thinking of trying to make a medeco rake (I've never had much luck with city rakes). I don't know much of the details, which I think are locked away from us heathens on that other site, but they seem to be city like rakes with angled cuts on them. You can see the special rake made for SFI by scrolling down here http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23414. I haven't quite decided what angles to use yet, probably just eyeball 20 degrees aft and fore, gotta read up on medecos, with a dremel.
Thought I'd mention it in case you've never heard of it before. And remember, this is all wild conjecture on my part.

Pics on this link are dead.

Ok, just to get this straight...

Someone posts a thread on another forum, six years ago, referring to pictures hosted on their own photobucket account waaaay back at that time.
And you're letting us know... so we can fix it?

Yep, that sounds about right.

... Just teasin' ya a bit

[escher7]

Well I'm sure you're looking for something more along the lines of spp, but ever since I got a rather thick city rake from sparrow I've been thinking of trying to make a medeco rake (I've never had much luck with city rakes). I don't know much of the details, which I think are locked away from us heathens on that other site, but they seem to be city like rakes with angled cuts on them. You can see the special rake made for SFI by scrolling down here http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23414. I haven't quite decided what angles to use yet, probably just eyeball 20 degrees aft and fore, gotta read up on medecos, with a dremel.
Thought I'd mention it in case you've never heard of it before. And remember, this is all wild conjecture on my part.

Pics on this link are dead.

Ok, just to get this straight...

Someone posts a thread on another forum, six years ago, referring to pictures hosted on their own photobucket account waaaay back at that time.
And you're letting us know... so we can fix it?



Yep, that sounds about right.

... Just teasin' ya a bit

Nope. Just trying to save someone going to the link and finding no pics. Trying to be courteous.