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Terribly Worn Medeco - Picking Advice?

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adi_picker

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Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 am

Location: Australia

Post Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:39 am

Terribly Worn Medeco - Picking Advice?

G'day Guys,

Hoping someone, or many out there may be able to help me with some picking tips for a Medeco padlock I was given as a freebie, locked with no key. I have been picking Medeco, mostly Classic, but also BiAxial when I can find them, reliably for going on 6 months now, and unreliably for many many more months before that ;) The padlock in question has a 6 pin Classic core, which I believe is factory judging from the age of the lock, but has so far resisted all my attempts over tens of hours, given that it is incredibly worn, to the point where it dosent feel or act like any Medeco I have yet encountered. I can pick it to a false set 50% of the time, but only when using incredible amounts of tension, otherwise I will get nothing, and I am assuming the pins have overset. Once at the false set, I have detected one mushroom pin so far, in position 4, but only after manually turning the core back, and checking each pin one by one, oversetting each pin, and resetting the core until I discovered it. Past picking this I can also rotate the pins, and can get it to a point where it feels like everything is rotated correctly, but I never get an open. It feels like there is no spring pressure on the sidebar, as setting rotation also involves manually turning back the core, so I'm assuming that the sidebar springs are well used / used up! I have also tried picking it with a section of tapered wiper blade jammed into the small gap between the core and body at the bottom, to stop it from moving and provide better feedback. It does not impede the core movement at all.

It doesn't feel if anything is stuck inside the lock, as there is no signs of corrosion or rust, I get easy movement back and forth on the core, and plenty of play / movement in the shackle. Obviously, I don't feel as if I have ever passed the false set either, so I cant confirm the above. To be as sure as I can though, I soaked the lock in a bath of kerosene for a few days, periodically running a blank key in and out of it to push the pins to their limit, and also a cut key to get some rotation happening, and both feel fine. After I soaked it, I cleaned out any residual solvent with compressed air, and then lubed it up with Inox, which is a well respected lock lubricant, produced here in Australia. I don't want to get into a lube debate, so I will just say that its definately made all the pins nice and slippery and they move great!

So after trying all of the above, I still have no open, after spending 10+ hours picking away. I have even picked a bunch of other Medeco's during this picking, just to make sure it isn't just my skills lacking.. Hopefully ;) Does anybody have any tips on a good way to defeat this lock once and for all? As Medeco's in general are pretty rare in Australia, and padlocks even rarer, I plan on keeping it and making a key for it once open, and really don't want to have to attempt to drill the core, as any replacement would have to come from the US. That said, If I have it in the naughty bucket for another couple of months, this may be what happens to it!

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A close picture of the offending core, you can see the beating it has taken with the ultra-tension I have been applying to get sets.

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The padlock itself. After a bit of research here, I believe it to be a fairly old model, apparently Medeco's factory version of the S&G 826 Mil padlock, which it is very similar in size and shape to.

Thanks for any help in advance,

adi_picker
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Josephus

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Location: Michigan

Post Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:28 am

Re: Terribly Worn Medeco - Picking Advice?

Beaten up locks! Something I can contribute to.

Am I understanding this correctly: core rotation is good, pin rotation on all pins are good, pin lift is good, but you need to use large amounts of tension to get a false set?

Are all the springs in the pinstacks good? Are they consistent? You said manually turning the core back, does this model have a return spring or is it broken? Could the body-and-core surface be causing resistance? Rotation might catch a burr that isn't present when locked.

Just to be clear, are you turning it in the right direction? The bevel can potentially allow rotation on a worn lock with significant force. Even if you are, it might be worth trying to pick it in the opposite direction. If there is debris, even a tiny rotation in the opposite direction might free it.

My first impression, if all that stuff above is good, is that one or both of the springs in the sidebar are out of place. You would not get a false set if the sidebar cant move and could take more force. The sidebar itself might be damaged. It might not able to retract fully.

I can't tell from the picture but if the pins are beaten up that can cause many problems. With typical pins you can just rotate them and get a different feel, cant do that here.

It might be simple, "I can pick it to a false set 50% of the time, but only when using incredible amounts of tension, otherwise I will get nothing" If movement is good and there's no debris force is a problem. I have encountered some that I was certain needed more force or no progress is made only to find I was overlifting a pin/adjacent pin or otherwise forcing others in place. Probably just a binding mushroom that doesn't feel like one with the return problems.
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Patrick Star

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Post Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:56 pm

Re: Terribly Worn Medeco - Picking Advice?

Sounds like one of the sidebar springs has fallen out of the slot in the sidebar.
I have had this happen with Medecos that are a lot less worn than yours.

They tend to still open with the key, although requiring a lot of turning force. Unfortunately I get the impression that you don't have the key, in which case I don't have any real advice.
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adi_picker

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Posts: 110

Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 am

Location: Australia

Post Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:53 am

Re: Terribly Worn Medeco - Picking Advice?

Thanks for the advice guys.

Still not open yet, but I have managed to get a false set going CCW as well now a few times, and it seems to have made it much easier to pick to a false set going CW. Perhaps there was some debris in there gumming up the works. As I said, theres much less tension required to pick CW now, and I feel that I have identified another mushroom on pin 1. Going to get back on it this afternoon, heres hoping, I'll post a pic here when I get it open, one way or another!

Thanks again,

adi_picker
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whizdumb

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Post Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:22 am

Re: Terribly Worn Medeco - Picking Advice?

Go back to the fundamentals of picking medecos. Are you trying to rotate before lifting or are you lifting before you trying to rotate. Try both and see where you stand.
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Whizdumb81 wrote:You can't handle the DCAP
xe0 wrote:how about a peterson gov steel baseball bat so i can thwap motherfuckers
ecksdee wrote:To learn to pick locks is to learn how to speak a language spoken only in whispers and riddles.

http://www.youtube.com/user/HobbyPicker
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adi_picker

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Posts: 110

Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 am

Location: Australia

Post Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:02 am

Re: Terribly Worn Medeco - Picking Advice?

Well, everytime I have ever picked a Medeco successfully, its been CW, pick to shear line, false set, rotate, open. Before this lock I have tried but never really got the feel for doing it CCW, where I'm of the understanding the process is to rotate into a small false set when rotation is correct, then pick the shear / mushrooms and open. Whenever I have tried CCW, I never seem to get that first false set, and I figured I was just missing it, as some of the CCW vids I have watched have also lacked this. So I rotate the best I can, the pick to the shear, into a false set, and set any mushrooms. At this point, I find it much easier to feel which pins need setting rotationally, so I finish moving any I have at this point. Either way, although with this lock and one other I have been practicing CCW a lot more, I still have yet to get an open this way, picking CW just feels more reliable to me, and I guess its just what I have learned first.

Is this what you were alluding to with your question WhizDumb? Picking into a shear first while CCW? Is this incorrect?

adi_picker
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Patrick Star

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Post Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:07 pm

Re: Terribly Worn Medeco - Picking Advice?

I have always thought CCW is a lot easier. You set the rotations, the lock rotates a bit more, and now it's just like picking any lock with spools/mushrooms.
You can even drop the pins and the rotation stays in Place.

I always screw up and think I've set the rotation too early so I end up messing it up, but that's another story...
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adi_picker

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Posts: 110

Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 am

Location: Australia

Post Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:36 am

Re: Terribly Worn Medeco - Picking Advice?

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Woohoo! Thanks for everyones advice here, turns out I just needed more practice, and was stuck on a false gate. A little more here.

adi_picker

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