Sargent & Greenleaf BLAST-PROOF MILITARY PADLOCK REVISED!

[awol70]

Medecoder is nice, but it won't work for the new chisel pins coming off the line. It probably will for that lock, but why not start with a twisted half diamond rather than jumping in head first with the Medecoder? You've got the key, so you know the rotation. It would be difficult to tell if you were picking it to true set or false set if you can't get the sidebar pins set. There should be at least two mushroom drivers in there.

yeah,this lock is dated '86 and the ARX pins just came out recently am i right?
what do you mean by "twisted" ?( i am open to trying anything that works,then choosing which works best for me)
looks to me, judging by jon king's vid the medecoder works pretty well for the rotating...
do you have much experience with medeco,tooly?

[ToolyMcgee]

Twisted, like the key cuts in the key. The front of the half diamond, at least, should have a slope cut.

Yes, the ARX pins are rolling off the line now. The medecoder would work and I never said it didn't work best for rotating pins. 3 minutes and I didn't see him look at the key first, did you?

I was under the impression when I first got one that the chisel pins could spin 360 degrees. As far as I can tell, they don't. That makes manipulation considerably easier if you can see a key. The only experience I have with medeco besides my infatuation with the machining is the handful of times I have opened my 6 pin biaxial. Just under ten minutes my first time. Of course that isn't counting the two entire days I spent before that smashing my head on the wall... I've mixed up the pins with what I believe is an acceptable combination, but blind I have only been able to pick it with 4 stacks a few times.

They say tensioning should be done with a feather light, but I don't see how you could possibly get enough feedback to tell whether or not the sidebar is activating without the rigid or twist TOK wrech. I have been doing it with a tempered bristle steel half diamond, because it is thin enough to manuever in the keyway, but I was going to try making some twisted half diamonds soon, as I feel it will raise my consistency. Then it's time to buy keyless locks off ebay for dirt cheap to test my steel, and my sanity.

Medecoder is good, great in fact. I will be making one as soon as manual manipulation doesn't give me a kick anymore. Somehow I feel like it is a great tool, but probably has a steep learning curve. That's why I tried standard tools to get a feel for the lock first. You'll have to keep me posted on your success. Either way you choose it's a tough lock to be sure.

-Tooly

[awol70]

Twisted, like the key cuts in the key. The front of the half diamond, at least, should have a slope cut.

Yes, the ARX pins are rolling off the line now. The medecoder would work and I never said it didn't work best for rotating pins. 3 minutes and I didn't see him look at the key first, did you?

I was under the impression when I first got one that the chisel pins could spin 360 degrees. As far as I can tell, they don't. That makes manipulation considerably easier if you can see a key. The only experience I have with medeco besides my infatuation with the machining is the handful of times I have opened my 6 pin biaxial. Just under ten minutes my first time. Of course that isn't counting the two entire days I spent before that smashing my head on the wall... I've mixed up the pins with what I believe is an acceptable combination, but blind I have only been able to pick it with 4 stacks a few times.

They say tensioning should be done with a feather light, but I don't see how you could possibly get enough feedback to tell whether or not the sidebar is activating without the rigid or twist TOK wrech. I have been doing it with a tempered bristle steel half diamond, because it is thin enough to manuever in the keyway, but I was going to try making some twisted half diamonds soon, as I feel it will raise my consistency. Then it's time to buy keyless locks off ebay for dirt cheap to test my steel, and my sanity.

Medecoder is good, great in fact. I will be making one as soon as manual manipulation doesn't give me a kick anymore. Somehow I feel like it is a great tool, but probably has a steep learning curve. That's why I tried standard tools to get a feel for the lock first. You'll have to keep me posted on your success. Either way you choose it's a tough lock to be sure.

-Tooly

excellent insight,thank you.
i agree on the tension dilemma.
perhaps we could work together ,in making our medecoders,as i have no idea on specs and measurements.
the main obstacle i face is what to use for wire...i was thinking a guitar string,but that would be pretty flexy...any ideas?
the dowel,brass tubing etc. i can get, i just gotta know the best size of the outer tube.
thanks for your time.

[ToolyMcgee]

No big deal. I want to talk about Medeco, but since the coder was unveiled it has kind of been a stale topic.

Unfortunately I don't know how the tool is marked either. That's another reason I havn't made one yet. I need access to more pins to make a complete scale on the side of the coder. Of course I suppose I could mark the position of each pin I have for each pin column and just leave the ones in between blank.

I was going to go cheapo on the first one I tried. Plastic tube in plastic tube. Wrap the wire around a post at the back of the tube and then use some hot glue to suspend it inside so it would be centered in the tube. Maybe I'm over complicating it even at that.

As for wire I think guitar wire would work. I know JKtheCJer used piano wire. That is kind of what I had decided to use, but guitar string might be stiff enough and I think I have some. The whole issue with the wire is how thick can you get it and still have it easily find the sidebar slots. The stiffness is important, but since we won't be rotating the pins under tension I think most musical insturment wire would be rigid enough.

I've got some of the pins out, and 22 gauge wire seems to be slightly too big, and 26 GA is too thin. So somewhere in between would be best. I'm gonna go find that guitar string...

Cool. My motivation is limited this week, but maybe together we could get a decent version of some kind of coder whipped up.

-Tooly

For the service key - shoulder problem, I'll just make one out of plastic to turn it back the other way.

[awol70]

For the service key - shoulder problem, I'll just make one out of plastic to turn it back the other way.

i have tried making medeco keys out of plastic...had a hell of a time...
can you offer any tips tricks/ suggestions for materials?

Havn't had the chance to make one for a medeco yet, but the concept is sound so I'm sure it's possible. I'll have a go at it when I get back to my home town and post results.

[awol70]

Havn't had the chance to make one for a medeco yet, but the concept is sound so I'm sure it's possible. I'll have a go at it when I get back to my home town and post results.

ok, i used a discarded credit -type card, and it would have worked fine in a regular pin-tumbler lock...but replicating the angles by hand is not easy...
any and all input,concerning materials,trial&error,etc..would be much appreciated.
thanks.

[Houndour]

Ray, have you contacted the wise and great Redbird. He's always useful for advice. Maybe give him a message and see if he has any information that might fill the gaps for you.

Hi everyone... long time no see ;P

[awol70]

Ray, have you contacted the wise and great Redbird. He's always useful for advice. Maybe give him a message and see if he has any information that might fill the gaps for you.

Hi everyone... long time no see ;P

i really wish i could...he would have solved this prob b4 it even had a chance to bug me.
it is with mixed feelings i pass on the info that his new lockout biz is flourishing,and growing FAST!
i assume he no longer has time for hobbies,or helping out fellow pickers, and understand totally.
i am so happy for his success, but miss the guy with ALL the answers in a REALLY big way.
he was,and is, a highly valued friend and teacher.
i simply wish him the best in life, and hope we cross paths again sometime soon.
oh,,,lol and he owns one,fully complete...never issued

Ray, have you contacted the wise and great Redbird. He's always useful for advice.

The guy is a genious, simply no other word for it.

I havn't spoken to the guy once but just from watching his videos you get a sense of how skilled and tecnically minded he is.

I wish him all the best for the future and i honestly believe he will be up there with the best of them.

Lew

[awol70]

Ray, have you contacted the wise and great Redbird. He's always useful for advice.

The guy is a genious, simply no other word for it.

I havn't spoken to the guy once but just from watching his videos you get a sense of how skilled and tecnically minded he is.

I wish him all the best for the future and i honestly believe he will be up there with the best of them.

Lew

yes he really is a credit to the community...a picker for over 20 yrs, he has more knowledge in his spit than i could ever hope to know about locks and picking.
i just thank the powers that be for the opportunity to have a bud like red.....
he taught me a LOT.
people like him are far and few between in the real world,
but at least (for the most part) good people seem to congregate in the LP community.
i hope someday red pops in for a quick hello.....
(maybe with a job offer? lol)

[DPSVDV]

Today I Went To My Local Locksmith And Asked Him About Sargent And Greenleaf.

This Is What He Told Me. He Showed Me This Numbers And letters They Were Show On A Sargent And Greanleaf Combo Lock The Numbers Were Like This......

F1S3 Ok There Is A Big Workd For Meaning Of The F But What It Really Means How Is It It To Break 1 Being Really Easy 4 Being The Hardest. Now For The S This Means How Easy It Is To Crack Or Open Once Again 1 Being Easy 4 Being Hard. This Was Shown To Me On A Sargent And Greenleaf Combo Lock.

Today I Went To My Local Locksmith And Asked Him About Sargent And Greenleaf.

This Is What He Told Me. He Showed Me This Numbers And letters They Were Show On A Sargent And Greanleaf Combo Lock The Numbers Were Like This......

F1S3 Ok There Is A Big Workd For Meaning Of The F But What It Really Means How Is It It To Break 1 Being Really Easy 4 Being The Hardest. Now For The S This Means How Easy It Is To Crack Or Open Once Again 1 Being Easy 4 Being Hard. This Was Shown To Me On A Sargent And Greenleaf Combo Lock.

I can't understand a thing you've said there. Try Not Capitalising Every Single Word You Type, It's Very Annoying.
What is it you're trying to say?


I chopped up a piece of plastic I had on my bench here to see if I could atleast get it in the keyway, but it's too soft and too thick, so if I can find a decent material to work with, I'll try again.

EDIT: I got sick of the plastic, so I just filed the shoulder off. I'll send some pictures of the plug to a mate who does Medeco, and see if he can do me up a new cylinder. Otherwise, I'll just make one on one of my restricted systems.
Took pictures while pulling it apart.
http://rapidshare.com/files/149079192/8 ... s.rar.html

[johnopsec]

I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at. It seems that counter-clockwise on the newly modified "control" key causes the piece in the side to pop out. That part is intuitive. I'm not sure what is going on with the remaining pictures though.

What has happened between #251 and #252? Where did the piece come from in #253? What was its function? In #254, I see the plug but, how was it removed? Also, what are the other pieces? How were they removed? I don'gt see how they would come out the bottom of the lock so, they must come out of the top but, how? Video would be ultimately cool.

Thanks!

John