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Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

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jones

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Post Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:46 pm

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

Bickeylikey wrote:Hey guys, my name's Liang I'm a college student and cyclist at USC. I've had three bikes stolen while at USC and it really pissed me off so now I'm doing something about it.

I've created a lock that specifically secures the wheels of a bike. It works by replacing the hex nuts or quick release skewers holding a bike in place. It's designed so none of the common theft tools (i.e. wrenches, vice grips, bolt cutters, flamethrowers, that laser gun from Goldeneye, etc.) can get through it or get any leverage on it.

The nut can only be tightened / loosened with the specific wrench that comes in each package. There are multiple variations of these nut:wrench combinations.

I'd love to get some feedback from you guys on the product, whether or not you'd use it, and any advice you have (from business/marketing ideas to product improvements).

Cheers,
-Liang

PS. The Following URL is the photo of the product.
https://www.facebook.com/lockyournuts/p ... =1&theater




I must say I am excited to be handed this opportunity to cr@p on Your new invention:
I bet I can unscrew this with an "automatic center punch" almost as fast as using the key

Hope that's the "golden shower" you were seeking :padlock2:
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femurat

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Post Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:51 am

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

oldbiscuit wrote:
femurat wrote:I like these new security bolts. Until a thief buy one and brings the key with him, your wheels are safe.

I have two suggestions for you:
- the key only has one working side. The logo side may be useful if it was a second key, in case the other one is damaged. Or may be used for a smaller version of the tool to secure the saddle and handlebars.
- the picture of the wheel with all the spikes cut is a very bad example to advertise your product. I'm talking about this picture on your facebook page. In this case, by cutting all the spikes, the bike could have been taken even if the bolt were welded!

Good luck with your project :)


Femurat, Look at the picture again and think about it a little. If the bike would of had the locking nuts on the front or rear axle, even if all the spokes were cut loose, the rim would have had to have been cut in two in order for the axle to pass from inside the rim. I'm not quite sure why the thief cut the spokes, unless he didn't realize this fact either. I like the locking nut idea and I think it has a very good future in the theft deterrent area of security. Good Job!!


You're right oldbiscuit... I didn't think well :)
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xeo

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Post Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

jones wrote:
Bickeylikey wrote:Hey guys, my name's Liang I'm a college student and cyclist at USC. I've had three bikes stolen while at USC and it really pissed me off so now I'm doing something about it.

I've created a lock that specifically secures the wheels of a bike. It works by replacing the hex nuts or quick release skewers holding a bike in place. It's designed so none of the common theft tools (i.e. wrenches, vice grips, bolt cutters, flamethrowers, that laser gun from Goldeneye, etc.) can get through it or get any leverage on it.

The nut can only be tightened / loosened with the specific wrench that comes in each package. There are multiple variations of these nut:wrench combinations.

I'd love to get some feedback from you guys on the product, whether or not you'd use it, and any advice you have (from business/marketing ideas to product improvements).

Cheers,
-Liang

PS. The Following URL is the photo of the product.
https://www.facebook.com/lockyournuts/p ... =1&theater




I must say I am excited to be handed this opportunity to cr@p on Your new invention:
I bet I can unscrew this with an "automatic center punch" almost as fast as using the key

Hope that's the "golden shower" you were seeking :padlock2:



Your general attitude is bothering me. This is the second time I've had to play kindergarten schoolteacher for one of your stupid comments. Keep it respectful or do not post at all. This is your last warning.
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The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

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jones

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Post Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:15 pm

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

xeo wrote:
jones wrote:
Bickeylikey wrote:Hey guys, my name's Liang I'm a college student and cyclist at USC. I've had three bikes stolen while at USC and it really pissed me off so now I'm doing something about it.

I've created a lock that specifically secures the wheels of a bike. It works by replacing the hex nuts or quick release skewers holding a bike in place. It's designed so none of the common theft tools (i.e. wrenches, vice grips, bolt cutters, flamethrowers, that laser gun from Goldeneye, etc.) can get through it or get any leverage on it.

The nut can only be tightened / loosened with the specific wrench that comes in each package. There are multiple variations of these nut:wrench combinations.

I'd love to get some feedback from you guys on the product, whether or not you'd use it, and any advice you have (from business/marketing ideas to product improvements).

Cheers,
-Liang

PS. The Following URL is the photo of the product.
https://www.facebook.com/lockyournuts/p ... =1&theater




I must say I am excited to be handed this opportunity to cr@p on Your new invention:
I bet I can unscrew this with an "automatic center punch" almost as fast as using the key

Hope that's the "golden shower" you were seeking :padlock2:



Your general attitude is bothering me. This is the second time I've had to play kindergarten schoolteacher for one of your stupid comments. Keep it respectful or do not post at all. This is your last warning.



I'm so sorry, of course you are correct. I don't know what I was thinking & I will of course
try to do better in the future.
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Anarchy_won

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Post Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:03 am

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

I might be interested in testing a set if they are not to pricey. (if you have any for sale)
(17:44:28) HAL 9000 Sez: LockSport is full of children who throw fits because low priced low security products sold in discount department stores do not meet their arbitrary expectations.
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Lauren

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Post Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:50 am

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

My brother asked me to invent a lock that would protect bolt heads from being tampered with many years ago. So, I invented a lock that slips over the bolt head. It was made from just a small block of steel. I used a Master M1 cylinder as the prototype. The bolt head needed to have a recessed element below it, so the ball bearing would engage the head. The concept was overwhelmingly easy to do.
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Violaetor

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Post Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:23 am

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

Not having it in my hands it's hard to tell for sure, but tire irons exists that are smooth and bladed inside, that just cut into lugs and make their own hold for removing stripped nuts, or stealing rims. My guess is that is also applicable to this case, unless the profile of the nut somehow disallows for that to happen.
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Looking to get something made? Send me a PM!
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Mikeh727

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Post Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:39 pm

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

Hey Liang,

The concept looks pretty cool for anyone who wants to protect their wheels, but like any theft deterrent device, there will always be a work around for anyone who is determined to get past them. Do all of the bolts use the same wrench? If so, there is nothing stopping someone who wants to take them from buying their own set that comes with a wrench that they could use on any of these. And, it's likely that someone on this site could invent a device that would get past them if they had a set to play around with. Not so they could steal something, but because many of us here do this because we enjoy the puzzle that locks or locking devices provide.

Don't get me wrong, they look really cool and would probably act as a deterrent if your lock is through your wheel. But someone who is determined to take your bike will figure out a way around them. But for the thief who only steals when he or she sees an opportunity, these will keep your bike safer that it would be without them.

-Mike
I have an amazing grasp of the obvious. Beyond that, not so much.
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Bickeylikey

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Post Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:38 pm

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

Hey guys!! Thanks for the feedback. I think my initial post was a bit too broad and caused some confusion, so here's some clarity:

1) This would ONLY secure the wheels of your bike to the actual bike itself. You definitely still need a U-lock or cable to secure the entire bike to another object
2) This is in no way a new product / idea. But, being a cyclist myself, I've tried a bunch of things out there - consensus is, most of these just suck. Either made of crappy materials, or you need 2 tools to remove them, or their way too expensive, etc. Atomic22 & Pinhead are some prime examples of people who have failed here IMO.

@anarchy_won - we're launching our Kickstarter in August, just trying to get some feedback now. Want to stay in touch for when we do launch? Always looking to get more thoughts on this. Pricing is around $25-30 for a set to protect one wheel.

@mikeh727 - yep we're consistently making variations every day to make it less likely a thief could get his hands on this. In terms of stealing the nut - you're absolutely right. I could already think of a few ways to get past it. BUT, these would be with very specific tools usually, which a thief is very unlikely to get around. Or, it would be time-consuming to do so (i.e. using a cordless drill to get into the nut and twisting it). You can never make a perfectly secure product in my opinion, for anything. But the goal is to deter as much as possible, which is what I'm going for. At the very least, this is better than just the standard hex-nuts or QR skewers (aka thief bait) found on most bikes now

Thanks for the feedback guys. Here's some more photos (shoutout to the bottle opener - did I mention I was a college student or what!?)

http://imgur.com/IDYoaqY
http://imgur.com/BYruRbO
http://imgur.com/mMZuxTE

Feel free to ask away more difficult questions - it helps me hone the pitch to others (bring it on :D). Thanks guys <3
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flywheel

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Post Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:45 pm

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

http://imgur.com/mMZuxTE

I have some Blue Moon in my fridge. Cheers!
:slainte:
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Mikeh727

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Post Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:17 pm

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

flywheel wrote:I have some Blue Moon in my fridge. Cheers!
:slainte:



Blue Moon is great beer! That and a few others (Shiner Bock, Fat Tire, several varieties of Leinenkugel, and almost anything by New Glarus when I go to Wisconsin) have homes in my garage refrigerator. Of course those are quality beers. When it comes to quantity beer, nothing beats a case of Bud Light!

-Mike
I have an amazing grasp of the obvious. Beyond that, not so much.
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Bickeylikey

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Post Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:47 pm

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

blue moon and bud light are solid choices.... so is Stella... Heineken is blekh though
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rai

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Post Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:08 am

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

Idea for a lock cylinder, the plug in two halves, the key has the logo or a number or a barcode printed on it in raised letters, on one side and and grooved letters on the other side. intaglio on one side cameo on the other. the two halves of the plug also have cameo and intaglio symbols that have to fit into each other and the imprint or exprint on the key when the bits fit together, the plug is round, without them fitting in corresponding innies or outies the plug is not round and cannot turn.

well not a complete idea, but theres a lock mech possible like this, put a bar code on a slant, for pushing in and out and camming any tumblers as the thing is inserted, to fit a three dimensional bar code, grooves of varying length depth width and perhaps shape
think about it if your brainstorming, its not a fully formed idea but theres something in it I think

Rai
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Riyame

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Post Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

PhoneMan: I always knew I'd say something stupid and it would be someone's sig
macgng: i am an equal opportunity pervert
macgng: aww fuck thats goin in someone sig :-(

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic.
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Harvey

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Post Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:33 pm

Re: Asking for Feedback about my Bike lock Invention

Though this is an old thread, and the OP will be moving forward on the design in any case, I thought I would put forward some ideas for others to consider and perhaps make up their own minds.

  1. This not a new invention. I do not know what "2 patents" they are referring to in the KickStarter video, but these are not listed on the KS page or their homepage. This information would be helpful in convincing buyers.
  2. This design works on the same cam-action principle of all wrenches; whereby in this design, the wrench loosening the nut (less so on the 'tightening' action) cams against the nut and is held captive there to convert the outward pushing force into rotational force, applied to the nut and allowing loosening / removal. Keep in mind for later that these are only held 'tight' by the first ~1/2 +/- turn and the gripping teeth on the underside (in production models, not shown on video samples).
    In order to defeat this design, regardless of the 'permutation' of the serial numbered set that any particular user received, one could either:
    1. modify a set of "Bionic Wrench" or "Max Axess" wrenches to be 3-point only, allowing easy application of effective torque no matter the particular permutation of wrench 'key'
    2. Purchase or modify a small Oil Filter wrench to provide the cam-action force required to lock into the nut driving surfaces and effect removal.
    3. Purchase a "Gator Grip" universal socket (my personal favorite option) - Youtube video in action
  3. In sample images (available by their publically available Dropbox 'Press' folder) you can see how while the product may be resistant to standard pipe wrench / channel lock attacks on certain bike designs, on their example bike frame this would easily be gripped and turned by a standard set of channel locks. Remember, these nuts contain no internal Nylock thread locking system. The retaining system is entirely the first ~1/2 +/- turn due to pressure and the gripping teeth underneath. Overcome this with effective torque, and the nut will spin freely.
    This is less of an issue with the design of the product, and more about the application of it on the myriad of different frame and fork designs, providing persons a false sense of security & the inherent "MY WEEL STIL GOT STOLED" claims they will have.
  4. Offers no more theft resistance than something as simple (and cheap!) as the TufNuts square nuts commonly used on expensive and publically installed items as Stop signs, playground equipment etc. These install in a very simple manner which is dastardly difficult to remove without a second nut, yet uses standardised wrenches.
    Acknowledged, this offers no resistance against a person who also purchases a nut for themselves to carry around, but if we're talking about a person who frequently sees your bike or bikes with X security product installed, you won't stop that person carrying specialised tools.
    Just as effective against spontaneous thieves, can't be removed with Gator Grip sockets and a fraction of the cost. Don't reinvent the wheel folks.

I would be interested to know the specific metal material used in the wrench and the nuts themselves, a datasheet on typical torque able to be applied with their laser cut / stamped wrench, and an average torque guaranteed over the various permutations (assuming different permutations provided different upper-levels of torque before sheering / cam-out occurred)
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