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Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

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subsonic1050

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Post Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:24 am

Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

Hey Lockaholics, I'm working on picking an ignition cylinder from a 2000 Pontiac Bonneville. I have taken the cylinder apart, and there are 7 wafers in the cylinder. 4 pick to one side, and 3 to the other. Upon raking the cylinder, I immediately get a significant turn on the core, very similar to a false set in a regular pin tumbler lock. I get the same thing during SPP. While single pin picking, it seems I have all pins picked, but the core won't turn the rest of the way.

Can wafers have security pins? If so, how does that work? Any suggestions?
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rzr800

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Post Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:54 am

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

Are you putting pressure on the sidebar?
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mercurial

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Post Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:32 am

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

I am not at all familiar with the lock cylinder used in that car, but speaking in more general terms, there is an equivalent of sorts to security pins that can be employed in sidebar wafer locks.

The wafers can have false gates/notches in them. They are deep enough to catch the sidebar, making it seem as if the wafer is set, but they are not deep enough to allow the sidebar to enter far enough for the plug to turn fully.

In wafer locks that lack a sidebar, the edges of the wafers can be serrated, so that they catch at the plug/shell interface. If the serrations are deep enough, you could end up with a 'false set', where the plug turns slightly - as occurs with security pins in a conventional pin tumbler lock.

...Mark
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subsonic1050

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Post Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

Thanks for the help so far guys. It definitely looks like there might be "serrations" on the wafers, and POSSIBLY a sidebar, but I'm unsure. There is a bar that runs on both side of the cylinder where the wafers sit when the lock is closed. However, to me they just look like grooves that allow the wafers to move into the bible out of the core. I am putting up some pics so you guys can see this a bit better. The last pic is of one of the wafers completely removed.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated, or confirmation that these are simply deep serrations that I need to work past!

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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GWiens2001

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Post Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

The grooves you pointed out in the cylinder and at the top and bottom of the wafers are not for a sidebar. The groove on the #2 wafer you show in the above picture is for a sidebar. And yes, those extra serrations at the top and bottom of the wafer are for pick resistance, as well. :)

Gordon
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subsonic1050

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Post Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:15 pm

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

Thanks for the reply again Gordon - where is the sidebar located? I don't see one. Do I have to depress it somehow?
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GWiens2001

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Post Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:12 pm

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

Let me backtrack a bit and say that groove LOOKS to be for a sidebar. The sidebar is should be in the plug, lined up with where the groove in the wafer is located. Am not a locksmith, but a serious hobbiest. It may also be that GM makes a single wafer kit used on all its' locks, some of which use a sidebar.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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subsonic1050

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Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:46 am

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

So, to see the sidebar i should remove the wafers from the core, and it should be in there (if there is one that is)? Is it springloaded, and something I need to depress?
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mercurial

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Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:22 am

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

A sidebar, if present, will be on the outside of the plug, running lengthwise. There will be a narrow groove in the lock housing in the corresponding position to accommodate it.

If you take pics to give a view of the plug from all sides, it'll be easy to determine if there is a sidebar. A picture looking into the lock housing, from directly in front of the opening for the plug would help, too.

...Mark
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Farmerfreak

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Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:56 am

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

No sidebar in that lock.
The proof is in this picture!
Image
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GWiens2001

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Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:59 am

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

You are right, FF. Looking at the picture on my desktop instead of my phone, can see the groove in question peeking from this side. On my phone, could not see that, and thought it might be on the other side. Thanks!

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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subsonic1050

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Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:37 am

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

Ok great - thanks for all the help guys. So I basically just need to pick these like very deep serrations then. I will give that a go!
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Russ

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Post Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:39 pm

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

This lock DOES NOT have a side bar
I pic these with jiggle keys or impression them
Any GM product that has the in dash ignition with the B99 key is made the same as this one

All other GM in dash locks that don't use a transponder have a side bar
Last edited by Russ on Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. Automotive Locksmith
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Tale the Truth and nothing but the Truth
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subsonic1050

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Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:18 am

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

Thanks for the help Russ! I will be trying to pick this bad boy again soon.
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Farmerfreak

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Post Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:44 pm

Re: Car Ignition Cylinder Security Pins?

Russ wrote:All the GM"s that use the Z key way in dash don't have a side bar
This is an incorrect statement.

This is out of a 2007 chevy Malibu. It's the same ignition (with a sidebar) in the Pontiac G6 and Saturn Aura.
Image
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