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Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:57 am**

Following on from the discussion that started about the Abus Titalium in femurat's thread on locks from
Malta : (viewtopic.php?f=111&t=9309 ) ...

I mentioned that I want to try a destructive technique on one & whilst searching for information about the alloy used to make these locks, I came across a YouTube video where a Titalium is forced & it fails quite miserably, for a lock that's described as being made of a "maximum strength" alloy. Abus's claim of Titalium having a "high level of torsion"
(I assume they mean torsion resistance) is ironic, given the mode of failure in the clip.

Before breaking the lock, the clip begins with the lock being picked, and it is stated that there are no security pins in it - quite strange for an Abus, in my experience!

Does your Titalium have security pins, femurat?

Here is the clip of picking & then breaking a Titalium (in case it isn't clear, this clip isn't mine) : http://youtube.com/watch?v=OtEWYcgl-EE

I've always held Abus in high regard, but after my experience of a Diskus & seeing their Titalium advertising hype contrasted against reality, I fear they may be letting their standards slide downhill.

If any Australian members see Titalium's being sold cheaply, please let me know, I still want to 'test' one.

...Mark

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:32 am**

There more like aluminum with titanium oxide paint .. And screw abus for letting us all down :whip:

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:21 pm**

mercurial, I was pleased to see you'd started this thread.

First off, while I think writing the manufacturer's name ABUS is more accurate, I would agree it looks a bit 'shouty', so I'll write it as Abus from now on.

I was idly thinking what metal Titaliums were made of today, when the word 'dural' sprang to mind. Duralumin, which I know was used for the skin of Spitfires. Here's the Wiki page on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duralumin

I think a modern version like the AA2024 alloy mentioned, or something similar, is used for Titaliums. It's not corrosion resistant, so some sort of coating will be needed.

Alaphablue, I reckon I know the paint you're thinking of. Titanium dioxide, which is bright white. That's the paint you see on the Saturn V rocket. STILL no titanium in a Titalium!

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:57 pm**

These locks are not made of titanium but rathef "titalium"tm, "an aluminum alloy that is a strong, silver colored metal that sparkles and is corrosion resistant. ABUS TITALIUM™ series padlocks have a brushed stainless steel appearance that should not discolor over time".
http://www.locksmithledger.com/article/ ... m-padlocks

(See the link for more info.)

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:24 pm**

Deadlock : I write it Abus for exactly the reason you described, it looks like shouting if written in all caps.

Like you, I also wondered if Titalium locks might be made of Duralumin, but I concluded that they probably are not. The reason Abus have moved away from brass is the rapid increase(still ongoing) in the cost of copper, which is the principal element added to aluminium to make Duralumin.

My opinion, like yours, was that there is no titanium whatsoever in the Titalium alloy, however I have found a claim to the contrary, stating that Titalium "consists of both aluminium and titanium in just the right quantities to be both light in weight, strong and highly weatherproof."
http://www.nothingbutpadlocks.com/products/titalium-padlocks

I have no idea if this is speculation/assumption on the part of that retailer, or if Abus has disclosed this to them.

The fact that Abus themselves do not mention (anywhere that I can find) that Titalium contains titanium seems strange - I would think they'd be advertising this, if it were the case.

...Mark

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:38 pm**

I have an idea, grind it. If it gives off yellow sparks, then ferrite is present. If it gives off bright white sparks, then it is titanium. If (when) it gums up your wheel, well that would be the aluminum. :razz:

Dressing stone, lube, or wax probably required.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:22 am**

It is interesting that there is no patent filed for "titalium", only a trademark. This tells me that they are likely using one of the many commercially available aluminum alloys, but giving it the appearance of being something special. (Much like Peterson's "Government Steel" which I am fairly certain is just 301 stainless.)
As to whether it contains titanium, my guess is that they use one of many possible aluminum/titanium alloys just based on the name. You guys are correct that the Abus sites do not mention the specific alloy, but it would take a lot of jam to use "titalium" if there was copper or something else. The available alloys contain only something in the range of 3 - 6% titanium which might toughen the aluminum but certainly would not harden it anything like steel. Remember, Abus's use of this material is their answer to the rising cost of copper and hence brass. They only mean it to compare to brass padlocks in terms of force resistance, but it is unfortunate that they recommend it for high levels of protection.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:51 am**

Hey Escher, I am pretty sure they don't use 301 SS for the govt steel. It will be some sort of medium-high carbon steel, I think.

301 SS is austenitic and won't heat treat. Peterson picks have been hardened and tempered for sure.

About the Titalium - I saw it it a lock expo last year and was appalled that they were using an aluminium alloy.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:31 am**

huxleypig wrote:Hey Escher, I am pretty sure they don't use 301 SS for the govt steel. It will be some sort of medium-high carbon steel, I think.

301 SS is austenitic and won't heat treat. Peterson picks have been hardened and tempered for sure.

About the Titalium - I saw it it a lock expo last year and was appalled that they were using an aluminium alloy.

Hux:
It is true that austenite steel is not heat treated in the normal way that carbon steel is. 301 SS is work hardened by cold rolling techniques and in fact is much tougher than most carbon steel. 301 high yield (as used by Southord in their Max line) is rated at 270,000 psi. Peterson has two lines, a carbon steel line and their "government steel" line, the latter being rated at 270,000 as well and therefore likely 301. I have emailed Ken Peterson re his government line but he did not respond. As with Abus Titalium, I am quite sure "Government Steel" is just a trademark for a standard material. I will be reviewing the Southord Max picks soon, with particular reference to the steel, as well as comparing their steel to Peterson, Sparrow etc.

I have also emailed Abus re the type of alloy in Titalium and will be interested to see if they respond. The Utube video showing destruction of one of the smaller padlocks was quite disturbing.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:26 am**

mercurial, the page on the link you posted is just what I was getting at in my post in femurat's thread. Whoever wrote that has taken the bait which was - knowingly or not - dangled by Abus. Read page 2 of the Titalium brochure for more somewhat 'suggestive' writing: "Like in the aircraft industry...", "...stainless steel like finish."

As you say, if there were the smallest percentage of titanium in this Titalium alloy, that would be the first thing Abus would mention.

Just for interest, here's a link to a page which gives the ingredients to eight types of aluminium alloy:

http://www.onlinemetals.com/aluminumguide.cfm

I don't think Titalium is any one of these now though. Before I clicked onto Keypicking, I too emailed Abus, so we'll see what they say next week.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:39 pm**

escher7 wrote:
huxleypig wrote:Hey Escher, I am pretty sure they don't use 301 SS for the govt steel. It will be some sort of medium-high carbon steel, I think.

301 SS is austenitic and won't heat treat. Peterson picks have been hardened and tempered for sure.

About the Titalium - I saw it it a lock expo last year and was appalled that they were using an aluminium alloy.

Hux:
It is true that austenite steel is not heat treated in the normal way that carbon steel is. 301 SS is work hardened by cold rolling techniques and in fact is much tougher than most carbon steel. 301 high yield (as used by Southord in their Max line) is rated at 270,000 psi. Peterson has two lines, a carbon steel line and their "government steel" line, the latter being rated at 270,000 as well and therefore likely 301. I have emailed Ken Peterson re his government line but he did not respond. As with Abus Titalium, I am quite sure "Government Steel" is just a trademark for a standard material. I will be reviewing the Southord Max picks soon, with particular reference to the steel, as well as comparing their steel to Peterson, Sparrow etc.

I have also emailed Abus re the type of alloy in Titalium and will be interested to see if they respond. The Utube video showing destruction of one of the smaller padlocks was quite disturbing.

301 ss is tougher than most carbon steels? Really? Cool, I never knew that. But it's not tempered, right? What I mean is if I had a thin strip of it (like a lockpick), it would bend, not spring back to shape like spring steel? Or does it?

I thought that a high carbon spring steel would be tougher than 301 ss?

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:55 pm**

No hux the cold rolling of 301 ss gives the same properties to it as a well hardened and tempered carbon steel , same effect but different process .

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:27 pm**

Alaphablue wrote:No hux the cold rolling of 301 ss gives the same properties to it as a well hardened and tempered carbon steel , same effect but different process .

Correct. And 301, properly worked, has great resistance to deformation, (ie springyness). Also, there are many levels of hardening with SS. Most picks are full hard (around 185,000 psi), although some, like Southord Max are even tougher at Max Yield (270,000 plus psi).

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:09 pm**

ive been wanting one of these for awhile (im a big abus fan now (ty ARF)) so i ordered one off the internet all excited. SPP'ed it in 30 seconds outta the box :steam:

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:13 pm**

escher7 wrote:
Alaphablue wrote:No hux the cold rolling of 301 ss gives the same properties to it as a well hardened and tempered carbon steel , same effect but different process .

Correct. And 301, properly worked, has great resistance to deformation, (ie springyness). Also, there are many levels of hardening with SS. Most picks are full hard (around 185,000 psi), although some, like Southord Max are even tougher at Max Yield (270,000 plus psi).

I wish I knew more about the technical details of this stuff. I know tensile strength is not the end all be all. The 1095 I use is 230,000. I have used the same steel around 300,000 and that was prone to snapping. It can go even higher but shattering and chipping becomes an issue. Some torsion tools lying around here are stainless at 95,000 and they do a pretty good job anyway. No idea to work harden those properly sad to say.

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