Abus Titalium

[mercurial]

Ken (Peterson) is reallllly busy, I don't know if he is good at getting through his email, however, he does like to talk. If you want to know what their Government Steel is, I would suggest calling him. Unless he considers it a trade secret, I'm sure he will answer truthfully.

I too emailed Abus a few days ago. I pointed out the Titalium locks are being advertised by some retailers as containing titanium, hopefully they will confirm or whether this is really the case...or not.

Abus aren't the only company using lightweight alloys - the American 1105 is one other example. Does anybody know what they are made of? The one Titalium that I have held was connected to a hasp, making it hard to judge weight, but it felt like the Titalium alloy is less dense than what the American 1105 alloy.

...Mark

[escher7]

No hux the cold rolling of 301 ss gives the same properties to it as a well hardened and tempered carbon steel , same effect but different process .

Correct. And 301, properly worked, has great resistance to deformation, (ie springyness). Also, there are many levels of hardening with SS. Most picks are full hard (around 185,000 psi), although some, like Southord Max are even tougher at Max Yield (270,000 plus psi).

I wish I knew more about the technical details of this stuff. I know tensile strength is not the end all be all. The 1095 I use is 230,000. I have used the same steel around 300,000 and that was prone to snapping. It can go even higher but shattering and chipping becomes an issue. Some torsion tools lying around here are stainless at 95,000 and they do a pretty good job anyway. No idea to work harden those properly sad to say.

There is a ton of information on the net, but unless you are a metallurgists, the best one can do is rely on basic data. It is true that tensile strength is not everything, but it is one of the best indicators for assessing a pick's ability to tolerate stress without failing. However, a pick that bends too easily is useless even though it might return to its original shape after being stressed. Similarly, many people talk about "Rockwell hardness" etc. which really has no direct bearing on a pick's ability to perform. Try slamming a file (which is very hard) against an anvil and watch it shatter. (There is a linear correlation between hardness and tensile strength, but the curve changes for every metal.)
We want a pick to be hard enough to allow force on the pins, and to give feedback, but not so flexible that it bends easily. The grain must be consistent, fine and without inclusions so it doesn't break easily. And finally, if it does deform slightly, it should return to its original shape.
All the pick manufacturers that I am aware of use tensile strength as the measure of their products ability to perform, so the best reason to use that comparative is that it is available.
As for treating stainless at home to harden it, I doubt if it is possible. Unlike basic carbon steel which you can harden and temper on your own, SS is hardened by very complex industrial processes which tend to be proprietary and uses large and powerful equipment.

Incidentally, 1095 is, as you know, a basic oil quenched high carbon steel which maxes out at 1462 Mpa (or 212,045 Psi) if tempered at 205 degrees Centigrade. You are correct that any attempt to temper 1095 harder than that would result in brittleness.

[Alaphablue]

Hay hay now no slamming files on anvils that will only get you a 2.5 pound hammer in the nuts from the blacksmith .

[escher7]

Hay hay now no slamming files on anvils that will only get you a 2.5 pound hammer in the nuts from the blacksmith .

I spent many years forging knife blades, including Damascus. I shattered a fine blade that had been hardened but not tempered by accidentally hitting it on a vice - that's how I know.

[Alaphablue]

A ha I suspected this form the way you talk about metal ..... You must also hate the dreaded ping ! Of a hardened blade that has cracked .

[Deadlock]

Well, a week's gone by and no reply from Abus. I'm guessing that's the same for everyone.

[mercurial]

Nothing useful - I got a prompt reply, stating that my question "has been forwarded to their service department" & they will respond as soon as possible. There has been no further communication from them.

...Mark

[escher7]

Nothing useful - I got a prompt reply, stating that my question "has been forwarded to their service department" & they will respond as soon as possible. There has been no further communication from them.

...Mark

Ditto. My guess is that the name Titalium may well be misleading and in fact the alloy does not contain titanium or they would have been glad to verify it. In fairness, even in the U Tube destructive video it was not the lock body that broke, but rather the latch/shackle. Since the new aluminum alloy was meant to replace the brass one, it likely is roughly equal in strength, and it is too bad Abus did not just say so without hyping the new material with a b.s. name.

[Neilau]

A hardware chain in Australia recently had a sale on Abus Titalium 80TI/40 padlocks.

See pic. is advertised as Titanium - $15 for a chunk of Titanium is pretty good!!!!

a1.jpg

The card in the pack says Titalium is “ special aluminium”

a2.jpg

Paracentric key way will probably only stop a comb pick.

a3.jpg

What was surprising is that it came with a 6 pin cylinder!!! in a tiny 40 mm lock.

Made in China.

I can confirm that it feels very different. On giving it a quick couple of rakes it will rotate about 10 degrees as if it has got spools but I can’t feel/find them – maybe some other type of security pins (no mention on the pack) or as mentioned above, the pins sliding in Al.

So far I haven’t been able to pop it by any means I've tried – about half hour spent. The third low pin doesn’t help . Like I said the feedback is very different.

So unless my Mo Jo has gone to sleep for a while – it does that from time to time – must be old age. This looks like being a fun pick – like I would expect from Abus. Very difficult to feel a pin set.

Though from previous comments it looks like it is not very strong/secure and a good hammer blow will open it – but where’s the fun in that.

[flywheel]

Picture says titanium body? False advertising? I thought they didn't have titanium in them and they were very careful to avoid saying that.

Additional: "Ti" is titanium but they list it as "TI". Trying to be sneaky. Now I've gone back and read the earlier posts and members are saying something similar.

[Neilau]

The picture that says Titanium was in the sale catalog - so I don't know if it was the hardware store that got it wrong (was fooled) or if Abus was in collusion with the store with the advertising.

Definitely false advertising

You are correct that Ti is the abbreviation for titanium and that is what is stamped on the lock -- HUUUMMMMMMM

[escher7]

Real titanium would make a very strong lock body, but not only is the metal expensive but machining it is difficult. Casting it is unrealistic due to the required high temperature etc., and cutting/sanding it gives off sparks so hot you need welding goggles to protect your eyes. It fights bandsaw blades like crazy and wears out abrasives in minutes. It does turn beautifully on a lathe but the bottom line is fabricating a padlock would cost too much to be practical. Certainly more than $15.
As I mentioned above, Abus is using some aluminum alloy roughly similar to brass and it only hurts its reputation by trying to scam people with a phony name.

[Deadlock]

You are correct that Ti is the abbreviation for titanium and that is what is stamped on the lock -- HUUUMMMMMMM

Neilau, it's not Ti stamped on the lock, but TI, as flywheel says in the post above yours. If you click on the link in mercurial's original post on this thread, you'll see where I say the same thing.

[Neilau]

Thanks Deadlock.

Read your post. I suppose TI could be short for TITAILUM or TI like ABUS ??

Anyway, Splitting hairs really.

BosnianBill is correct - they are hard to pick (the 80/40 anyway) they make you work for it.

I would not get an 80TI/40 to lock up anything but definitely I'd get one to pick. If the others are like the one that I have they are a real challenge.

In your post you wonder if the new Discus is made in China - I have a new one, in box and it says made in Germany on the box.

Maybe the only the box is made in Germany. cause it opens "real easy".

Cheers.

[Deadlock]

Hi Neilau.

Yeah, if TI stands for anything, it's just short for Titalium. Abus won't answer any emails asking questions about these. Their attitude appears to be, 'ignore them and they'll go away'. Understandable they wouldn't want to enter into a public dialogue about the way these things have been advertised.


Good to hear it says Made in Germany on the box. But does it say Discus or Diskus? Far as I know it should be Diskus.