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So yeah, first time w/ spools...

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hellslave

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Post Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:15 am

So yeah, first time w/ spools...

Just got my practice lock from LearnLockPicking (I alread know about MrWizard's lock; it's on my radar) a couple days ago. After the default 5-pin setup became old hat, I decided to jump into the deep end right away, and replace all but one of standard drivers with spools. Defeated them on my first try (took about two minutes or so, but I wasn't timing myself). Granted, I knew where the standard pin was placed because I'm the one who put it there, but still. Should I have expected them to be this easy, or have my picking skills really improved that much in such a short amount of time (got my first picks on Apr. 3rd)? Guess it's time to ditch the pins it came keyed with and just throw in some randoms and add the sixth and final stack (would all spools more or less of a challenge?)...

(NOTE: was not meant to be a bragging topic; sorry if it came across that way)
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xeo

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Post Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:49 am

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

It isn't unrealistic for someone to learn that quick. You're probably a natural. Try blindly mixing drivers around in a 6 pin configuration and see if you can pick that blind. Try 6 spools as well. The next step up from this is a higher tolerance lock where determining the binding pin is more difficult.

In any case, congrats.
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hellslave

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Post Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:11 pm

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

That's what I ended up doing. I also used the smaller springs so it's mushier, too. This is more of the challenge I was looking for.
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GWiens2001

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Post Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

Which keyway does your practice lock use? Many use the Sargent LA, which has enough room to drive a truck into the keyway. MrWizard's lock uses a Schlage C keyway, so a person needs to learn to negotiate the keyway wards while manipulating the pins. Then you could step it up and make a practice lock with a Yale keyway.

Good work, and keep us informed!

Gordon
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hellslave

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Post Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

It's the Sargent keyway. Also, I'm well aware of MW's lock; I do plan on getting one when I have the extra cash to spend.
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scudo

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Post Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:45 pm

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

Yip its never a level playing field I am still trying to pop my sal/40 after 3 weeks, some are more natural at it than others.

Good that you can do spools so quickly as a newbie and I hope your success continues.

It also depends on what you want to achieve from it, I have a 4 pin padlock (no security pins) that I can usually pick in under a minute but the first time took over 2 weeks, but although I can SPP it I am not happy as there is something about it I dont understand to do with the binding order, and the first pin I am sure goes beyond the shear line and it still pops. I wont be happy until I solve my mystery.
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Josephus

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Post Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:37 pm

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

scudo wrote:Yip its never a level playing field I am still trying to pop my sal/40 after 3 weeks, some are more natural at it than others.

Good that you can do spools so quickly as a newbie and I hope your success continues.

It also depends on what you want to achieve from it, I have a 4 pin padlock (no security pins) that I can usually pick in under a minute but the first time took over 2 weeks, but although I can SPP it I am not happy as there is something about it I dont understand to do with the binding order, and the first pin I am sure goes beyond the shear line and it still pops. I wont be happy until I solve my mystery.


Key pin is probably a significantly smaller diameter. Means it is nearly impossible to overset that stack as long as it doesn't bind last. The keypin just falls back down on its own.

You are totally right on your first thought. Progress is all dependent on what you want to achieve. Many people that get into lockpicking are satisfied with popping a lock nomatter the time or conditions. Others do the whole locksport thing and go for time alone. Others just want to collect locks and picking is more of a sideshow to that. What constitutes a challenge will vary greatly based on what path is interesting to you. Do you want technical skill in ever more difficult mechanisms? Practical abilities? Consistency? Speed? Is novelty and pleasure seeking the true goal? Whatever it is just flow with it.

My only real goal is to be able to pop any lock that I have seen locally in 40 seconds or less on average, save the big boys like medeco, assa, and hardier bests which 5-10 minutes seems plenty good enough. In that goal the only ones that give a serious challenge is locks in very poor condition. Got a couple dozen locks in a bag from habitat for humanity that came out of a burnout. Calcified, rusted, obliterated pins, bent hull, twisted bible, half a century of sitting in the weather low security locks. Some of those can take enormous time and concentration to open. Sure, popping the usual suspects takes mere seconds, some higher security locks mere minutes, but put me in front of a kwikset that has been abused and degrading in the weather since the '50's and I'll embarrass myself.
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rerun12

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Post Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:41 pm

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

as some have mentioned, find a lock with a difficult keyway, something like this: :BESTwy:

and be happy to be learning so quickly. theres an ocean of locks out there just waiting to test your abilities :armed:
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.
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fgarci03

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Post Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:51 pm

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

What Xeo said!!


None the less, congrats on achieving such goal that quick. Spools, if you think about it, actually make a lock easier. What I found to be true is that you need to step up to them and fully understand how they work. When it happens, it gets so much easier.

You took that step really soon, so keep going at it!

Also, agree with the keyway thing. One of the main obstacles to pick is tigh keyways, so practice with them!


Hope to see further developments :mrgreen:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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hellslave

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Post Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:15 am

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

Thanks for all the kind words. Do you guys have any advice on dealing with hand fatigue? Should I change my grip or look into bigger hadles? Or is it just something I'll get used to over time?
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nsquidc

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Post Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:24 am

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

hellslave wrote:Thanks for all the kind words. Do you guys have any advice on dealing with hand fatigue? Should I change my grip or look into bigger hadles? Or is it just something I'll get used to over time?


I had the same problem for the longest time... Really depends upon how you are holding the pick and what pick you are using. Are you gripping the pick mostly on the handle? If so, that could be part of the problem. (Simple physics, the farther back you are from the fulcrum, the more torque any given action requires.) Now the majority of my grip is on the pick shaft itself with the handle mostly resting on my hand. A lot less torque required, and much better feedback. Note, this may not work for you. It's just what I like to do.

I also have fatigue issues with very thin handles. More reason to fall in love with Petersons :)
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hellslave

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Post Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:29 am

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

I hold them in the same manner that bosnianbill does (thumb/index on handle; middle on pick shaft itself). But all my picks are indeed of the thin variety (riveted between to pieces of steel. They work well, but are pain hole for more than a few minutes at a time.
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rerun12

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Post Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:53 pm

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

i had this same problem starting out myself. try holding the pick and wrench as lightly as u can without losing control of them. idk if you play golf or tennis or like to swordfight but its kinda the same idea; hold them loosely as you can and think of them as an extension of your own hand
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.
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scudo

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Post Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:01 pm

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

But all my picks are indeed of the thin variety (riveted between to pieces of steel. They work well, but are pain hole for more than a few minutes at a time.


Same issue here, I need to get some heat shrink or similar to give a more rounded edge to them, I use mainly southord or DIY hacksaw blades.
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hellslave

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Post Thu May 01, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: So yeah, first time w/ spools...

To update things...

I defeated the new 6pin configuration I put in a couple days after I posted about doing it. After that, I swapped out all but one of the drivers for spools, and just now got that picked for the first time. The hardest part of all this is actually managing my springs; making sure they're aren't too short/long for the pin-stack. The only copout to me, is that I know where the standard driver is (I used a random number generator for its placement). My first setup didn't work, because when I got the false-set, that alone caused one of the stacks to bind up by default; switching around a couple key-pins solved that problem though.

I also won a lock from bosnianbill over the week, and while it's a cheap piece of crap (that was the purpose of his video in the first place), I AM having fun using just one hand to tension and rake it open (managed to SPP it only once, though).

The other thing I've gathered from all this, is that for me, twist-flex wrenches suck; too springy for me.

I should also note that while I've been doing all this, I've been switching it up and doing some of it left-handed as well. Not nearly as awkward as I thought it'd be. I plan on getting some Titaliums when I get the Amazon giftcards saved up, too!
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