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How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:16 am
by uperkurk
So you've all seen movies where the CIA or a criminal will whip out a set of picks and pick their front door in like 10 seconds, obviously it would probably take longer than that but even then I still think it's just unrealistic that this happens in the real world. You also see them stick a stethoscope to a safe and within 1 minute the safe is cracked and sure it's all well and good for movies but how realistic is lock picking with regards to stuff like this?

I see videos on youtube of people lock picking padlocks and stuff but when it comes to a proper house lock, like in the UK the most common house lock is Image and it just isn't possible, even for a professional to pick this lock without having it at the perfect angle in a vice and even then it takes 5 minutes. Trying to do this while kneeling down at someones front door just seems highly unlikely.

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:19 am
by Anarchy_won
having lost my keys I have had to pick my house (deadbolt with 5 spool pins in it) my storage locker (masterlock) and my shed (another masterlock) , I got in to all 3 places in under 3min (each)

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:19 am
by Squelchtone
uperkurk wrote:So you've all seen movies where the CIA or a criminal will whip out a set of picks and pick their front door in like 10 seconds, obviously it would probably take longer than that but even then I still think it's just unrealistic that this happens in the real world. You also see them stick a stethoscope to a safe and within 1 minute the safe is cracked and sure it's all well and good for movies but how realistic is lock picking with regards to stuff like this?

I see videos on youtube of people lock picking padlocks and stuff but when it comes to a proper house lock, like in the UK the most common house lock is Image and it just isn't possible, even for a professional to pick this lock without having it at the perfect angle in a vice and even then it takes 5 minutes. Trying to do this while kneeling down at someones front door just seems highly unlikely.


it's just a Yale British Standard 1 star kite marked cylinder.. and I think the BS kitemark is more for anti snapping than picking.. sure, there are people who can rake that open in 5 seconds, even mounted on a door, on their knees. some are hobby pickers, some may be locksmiths, some may be bad guys. I think the bitting (key cuts) come in to play, if the lock has spool pins or not, and just getting lucky doesnt hurt. Is it 100% repeatable to have a man walk up to 10 doors that have the same model lock and he will pick everyone in 10 seconds or even 1 minute or 2, probably not, but if he knows his stuff, it shouldn't take longer than 1 or 2 minutes, 5 if he is struggling.

I think in the UK at least, snapping is a bigger issue for people to worry about from what I read, it doesn't take much experience, and seems to happen more often than picking, although picking may be harder to detect if someone locks the door on their way out.

So yes, although TV and movies make it seem like anyone can open any lock in 10 seconds, normally it does take a little longer, but sometimes locks do open in 10 seconds, it just depends on the picker and his tools.

...this seems vaguely familar..

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:22 am
by GWiens2001
Squelchtone wrote:...this seems vaguely familar..


Deja vu...

Gordon

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:27 am
by Squelchtone
GWiens2001 wrote:
Squelchtone wrote:...this seems vaguely familar..


Deja vu...

Gordon


there's a glitch in the Matrix...

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:31 am
by flywheel
What is snapping?

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:39 am
by Squelchtone
flywheel wrote:What is snapping?



check it out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI5hz2LbtCE

edit:
not sure if I can post this, even on this forum but here's a video showing one of the ways it is done, mods please remove if this should not be posted here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBqHryHXSj8

ugh, it only gets uglier from there, again, mods please remove if not proper for this arena.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqhhXyROxQM

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:01 am
by piotr
uperkurk wrote:Trying to do this while kneeling down at someones front door just seems highly unlikely.


Why?

Sure it is more difficult to pick a lock when it is mounted in a door and when you are on your knees or in a squat but the process is the same. You can find videos on YT of people picking locks while doing other activities like riding a bike or bouncing on a ball. There is nothing special about British Standards "kitemarked" Euro cylinders--they earn the kitemark because they resist snapping and drilling and they may have some spool pins. The snap-resistance and drill-resistance is irrelevant to picking and spool pins are found in many padlocks also and they are defeated in the same manner regardless of whether you are picking a Euro cylinder or a padlock.

I'm sure one of forum members from the UK can create a video where they take a new kitemarked Euro cylinder out of its box, mount it in a vise pin side down and vertical, using a table that is door-lock height and proceed to pick it open in under 60 seconds.

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:23 am
by flywheel


Ha! Yesterday's burglars are today's security experts. It's all a friendly game that keeps going round from one generation to the next.

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:41 am
by Neilau
uperkurk wrote: and it just isn't possible, even for a professional to pick this lock without having it at the perfect angle in a vice and even then it takes 5 minutes


HA HA

Hey I got a bridge that I can sell you. :mrgreen:

Looks like flame bait to me.

I don't think that being in a door or having to kneel down would make any difference AT ALL to a half way decent picker let alone an experienced one.

AND being in Europe I think you could have used a much better example to make your point ( "a proper house lock"??).

There are some fantastic examples of Hi Sec. locks over there that will stump even (most of) the best pickers.

An interesting first post.

I hope not but like I say. I think it's Flame bait. :twisted:

Anyway, Welcome to the forum uperkurk.

Cheers :D

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:28 am
by jharveee
I Roll my eyes every time I See Zeva pick a lock in 2 Seconds.
Then I realize its for entertainment, kinda like all those TV doctors.

I wouldn't be looking at the TV as a good source for lock picking techniques.

Enjoy the Show.

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:38 am
by huxleypig
How realistic is it? What do you think happens when you lose your keys in the UK and a (decent) locksmith comes out?

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:01 pm
by uperkurk
Neilau wrote:
uperkurk wrote: and it just isn't possible, even for a professional to pick this lock without having it at the perfect angle in a vice and even then it takes 5 minutes


HA HA

Hey I got a bridge that I can sell you. :mrgreen:

Looks like flame bait to me.

I don't think that being in a door or having to kneel down would make any difference AT ALL to a half way decent picker let alone an experienced one.

AND being in Europe I think you could have used a much better example to make your point ( "a proper house lock"??).

There are some fantastic examples of Hi Sec. locks over there that will stump even (most of) the best pickers.

An interesting first post.

I hope not but like I say. I think it's Flame bait. :twisted:

Anyway, Welcome to the forum uperkurk.

Cheers :D



It's not a troll / flame post at all. It's just when I watch videos of people lock picking they have it in a vice at the perfect angle, even having it upside down sometimes. Also in the UK 90% of homes use this type of lock it's VERY common.

Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:43 pm
by piotr
uperkurk wrote:
Neilau wrote:
uperkurk wrote: and it just isn't possible, even for a professional to pick this lock without having it at the
It's not a troll / flame post at all. It's just when I watch videos of people lock picking they have it in a vice at the perfect angle, even having it upside down sometimes. Also in the UK 90% of homes use this type of lock it's VERY common.


Some pickers pick with the lock at 180-degrees, i.e. "straight" . There is no "upside-down", Euro cylinders are mounted differently in different parts of the world. In Australia they are often installed "upside-down". But none of these things really matter, the technique doesn't change. Any of the best pickers on this forum can pick a cylinder like the one you posted in any orientation.

The lock that you posted is is just an ordinary 6-pin tumbler lock with at worst some spool pins. That is classed at best as an intermediate difficulty lock from a picking point of view. AFAIK there is absolutely nothing remarkable about it that would make it difficult to pick, i.e. it doesn't have a second shear-line, it most likely doesn't have counter-milling and serrated driver pins, it doesn't have rotating pins and a side-bar, it is just a plain vanilla Euro-cylinder so we don't really understand your confidence in it. An American 5200 padlock is harder to pick than that because it has serrated pins and there are many people here that pick an American 5200 padlock in around 60 seconds. Here is a video of ImSchatten360 picking an American 5200 (with serrated driver and key pins) in under 30 seconds:


Re: How realistic is lock picking?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:09 pm
by Neilau
No offence meant mate.

A lot of locks you see on YouTube are very easy or the locks have been "doctored"

The really good ones(and there are quite a few) set them up in a vice to make videoing (not picking) them easier. It's easier to set up the lighting and camera focus etc.

People on this forum pick locks for a hobby. Some of them are professionals but we all love the hobby. A lot of people have locks that they can rake open in a couple of seconds but will spend hours (or more) trying to open them by SPP.

If you were locked out of your house and were paying a professional by the hour, I'm sure that you would want him to open the lock as quickly as possible, so he would probably try raking first, spend a little more time SPP then get out the drill before the cost of his time exceeded the cost of a new lock.

As for TV -- well, it's TV :razz:

Just because a lock is used by 90% oh houses does not make a quality lock. Peoples' decision on what lock to use is usually based on price and the value of what they are locking up. A builder will usually use the cheapest lock they can get away with.

In this country the majority of new house locks are cheap Chinese or Korean models that mostly don't even deserve to be called locks.

Most people think that a lock is a lock and aren't interested or have no knowledge of what constitutes a good lock and would balk at paying more for a lock than the door.

When you make statements that "..it just isn't possible....." on a lock picking site you are bound to get a reaction.

There are people on this site that border on freakish when it comes to picking locks.

Some members have commented of how scarily easy is was for them to open their house locks (not recommended to practice on) after they had developed some skill.

Anyway, enough of the rant.

No offence was meant. :salute:

Enjoy what this site has to offer and grab some tools etc and start.

As you develop your skills you will see what I mean.

Again welcome to the site - introduce yourself - we don't bite - maybe gum a bit :mrgreen:

Cheers