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Best use for Peterson Gems?

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nsquidc

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:22 pm

Best use for Peterson Gems?

So I know a lot of people are extremely fond of these, so I ordered a Peterson Gem (Euro profile) in gov steel along with the Euro profile Deforest.

Not quite sure what's the optimal way to use it for two reasons.

First, the shaft height, even in a euro profile, seems too tall. It simply won't fit in the more restrictive keyways without forcing some keypins above the shearline. I know a lot of people prefer the slimline gems, but I don't see how this would help, as the issue is the shaft height, not the shaft width. (Indeed, wouldn't the slimline be worse, as it is in a standard rather than euro profile?) Incidentally, this is the same issue I am having with the euro Deforest. It's *way* too big for a true Euro lock.

Second, I've heard the angled face so you "force" a stuck pin to shear by raking underneath, but wouldn't a half diamond be better for that? You could use it in a prying fashion, but I definitely prefer the Reach for that instead of the Gem.

So how are people using their Gems? I assume there are other benefits that I simply haven't figured out yet.
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xeo

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:38 pm

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

Tools are situational and the best tool for a lock is the one that fits in the keyway and gives you the most room to work. A gem is not a silver bullet that will fit in every lock. However it is a very versatile pick on a very wide array of locks found in the United States.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

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nsquidc

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:46 pm

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

xeo wrote:Tools are situational and the best tool for a lock is the one that fits in the keyway and gives you the most room to work. A gem is not a silver bullet that will fit in every lock. However it is a very versatile pick on a very wide array of locks found in the United States.


Do you have examples of keyways where they are useful? I found that they were quite nice for extremely open keyways, but quite useless for even a mildly restrictive keyway like a Schlage C. (And given how common Schlage Cs are, I can't see how they would be as useful as people say they are.)

Obviously a lot of people with much more experience than I like them. Just curious how people use them in restrictive keyways.
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xeo

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:57 pm

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

The gem is the best pick for a Schlage C keyway.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

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rerun12

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:15 pm

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

nsquidc wrote:I found that they were quite nice for extremely open keyways, but quite useless for even a mildly restrictive keyway.


Not to be condescending but I think you've got this backwards hehe :smile: Also, the slender gem gives geeeereat feedback :hbg:
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nsquidc

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

Is the kicker that it really needs to be the slender gem rather than the euro gem?

Or maybe I just need to play with my gem more :)
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Josephus

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:54 pm

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

rerun12 wrote:
nsquidc wrote:I found that they were quite nice for extremely open keyways, but quite useless for even a mildly restrictive keyway.


Not to be condescending but I think you've got this backwards hehe :smile: Also, the slender gem gives geeeereat feedback :hbg:


Seems to be those hard plastic handles. Slimmed down, grey handled euro picks are my go-to when something requires extra finesse.

On topic, the answer to your question 'What is the optimal way to use a slender gem?' is something only you, working with your style, on the locks you want popped can really fully answer. For instance, I only use a slender gem very rarely, and that is when exploring a very tight keyway that is new to me. After I get a feel for it, I usually switch to the thickest that can still comfortably fit. Tool rigidity and consistency are big parts of what is effective for me. All I use most of the time is a modified no. 1 ss short hook with rubber handles. Ends up looking and feeling like a far less aggressive gem. Works reasonably well for everything except nasty profiles that require a reach. It is even okay for medecos, but does not consistently have the grip needed for rotation. Similarly, that versatility is what gems are good for. You can lift, rake, push, and pull without switching tools. Just remember that those pins rarely have flat bottoms and you will find more uses for your gems.
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nsquidc

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

Josephus wrote:
rerun12 wrote:
nsquidc wrote:I found that they were quite nice for extremely open keyways, but quite useless for even a mildly restrictive keyway.


Not to be condescending but I think you've got this backwards hehe :smile: Also, the slender gem gives geeeereat feedback :hbg:


Seems to be those hard plastic handles. Slimmed down, grey handled euro picks are my go-to when something requires extra finesse.

On topic, the answer to your question 'What is the optimal way to use a slender gem?' is something only you, working with your style, on the locks you want popped can really fully answer. For instance, I only use a slender gem very rarely, and that is when exploring a very tight keyway that is new to me. After I get a feel for it, I usually switch to the thickest that can still comfortably fit. Tool rigidity and consistency are big parts of what is effective for me. All I use most of the time is a modified no. 1 ss short hook with rubber handles. Ends up looking and feeling like a far less aggressive gem. Works reasonably well for everything except nasty profiles that require a reach. It is even okay for medecos, but does not consistently have the grip needed for rotation. Similarly, that versatility is what gems are good for. You can lift, rake, push, and pull without switching tools. Just remember that those pins rarely have flat bottoms and you will find more uses for your gems.


Fantastic, thanks. I've been sanding down my gem since I started this thread (for thickness) and I've found that this is already starting to help.

Out of curiosity, how did you modify your short hook?
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magician59

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:01 pm

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

For restrictive keyways, I much prefer Rytan mini-blues, and my go-to: RP-14 and RP-15
http://www.rytan.com/images/manual/SLPK-13.pdf
http://www.rytan.com/images/manual/RYP_15_TYPE_1.pdf
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ARF-GEF

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

I agree, don't forget that picks are very much a personal choice!
Our friend Femurat here did things with just 1 pick which I could't reproduce if I had all the picks of the word at my hands.
Anyhow I use the peterson gem and the half diamond wuite often, I found that when I get frustrated and desperately try some raking moves before resetting the lock, they have a surpisingly good chane of actually opening the lock. :shock:
The question is what you like and what you find you are succesful with. It's very much a question of personal taste/ and a question of waht you practised the most with IMO. Naturally phisical restirctions apply :)

That said SLPK-13 sounds something I would like to have, I often have trouble with the very very small padlocks.
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entropy

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

I copied a Peterson slender gem onto 0.015" feeler stock. But I made the stem not so high. Basically, the whole thing is as thin as the thinnest part of the original Peterson. This way it fits more locks, but still it is rigid enough (even though it is 0.015"). My favorite use for the tip is grabbing the hole in the bottom of Medeco pins. Not biaxial pins though, only the Medeco classic ("Air" I think it is called). Also it works good for American 5200/1105 where the 0.015 thickness is important.
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Josephus

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:47 am

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

nsquidc wrote:Out of curiosity, how did you modify your short hook?



Here is a hasty shot of my most used one next to one that hasn't been touched. Calipers say it is 0.019 at the tip and tapers out to full thickness over half way down the neck. Narrowest width is 0.05. It was once polished to a mirror shine but the thickness is still enough to make it drag. The most important, or only important part really is the working tip. It has a slight curve on the drop while keeping the tip and the top rather sharp. That helps when working front to back, prodding at stuff, and moving sticking elements around.

Peterson1mod.png
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nsquidc

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:38 am

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

Great photo. Thanks!
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VancouverSpecial

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:58 am

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

xeo wrote:The gem is the best pick for a Schlage C keyway.

:agree:
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nsquidc

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:59 am

Re: Best use for Peterson Gems?

magician59 wrote:For restrictive keyways, I much prefer Rytan mini-blues, and my go-to: RP-14 and RP-15
http://www.rytan.com/images/manual/SLPK-13.pdf
http://www.rytan.com/images/manual/RYP_15_TYPE_1.pdf


How is the handle for the Rytan RP-14 & RP-15? By the catalog, they look handle-less, but I can't tell if it's a laminated center like the Southern Specialties design.
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