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help with cutaway lock

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scudo

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Location: scotland

Post Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:30 pm

help with cutaway lock

My cutaway euro type 6 pin lock arrived today...lovely. I know this will a great aid for me as the plugs have Allan keys so I can take some out until I get more proficient and then progress. In the meantime with all 6 pins I am trying to learn the various clicks tensions etc and it is useful being able to see the pins at this stage, I am however still having difficuly getting the 6th pin to move let alone set (ok without tension bar) I suspect it has something to do with the tension bar but have tried both TKW and BKW and different approach angles it is for some reason restricting my access, also tried with a couple of different picks.

Any tips
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jharveee

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Post Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:40 pm

Re: help with cutaway lock

Sure would like to see your lock and tools. Are photos possible.
sounds like tok would help
I use a Rytan offset diamond or Peterson slender gem when i have trouble reaching the back pins. Other than CES I do not come across Euro cylinders much.
Hopefully others can be of more help.
Still want to see what you have.

thanks and good luck.
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scudo

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Post Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:06 am

Re: help with cutaway lock

I will take some pics tomorrow and post them. Thanks for the reply.
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scudo

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Post Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:40 am

Re: help with cutaway lock

Image of lock/key and tools.

keyway.JPG
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Gregted

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Post Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:50 am

Re: help with cutaway lock

Nice looking cutaway scudo.

I see number 6 is a long way back so you might have to file/grind down your pick or just make another one from an old hacksaw blade. I have a very thin one I use to get into slim/shallow keyways and I only use that when other pins are set.

Have you worked out the binding order yet? Are you sure 6 is the last pin to bind? It might have to be set before one of the other ones. If you have set others first, the ledge above the sixth might be too great to overcome without dropping other pins.

It might help to try to set this pin first and adjust the tension to suit that pin.
Aut viam inveniam aut ipse viam faciam
"I shall either find a way, or make a way myself."

“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.” ― George Bernard Shaw
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scudo

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Location: scotland

Post Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: help with cutaway lock

The pins not stuck as such it moves freely when I dont have the tension bar in, I think its the tension bar thats blocking access, I dont seem to be able to reach far enough only when the tension bar is in. Its probably just newbie issues that will come right eventually.
I will be taking some of the pins out later, probably start with 3 then add one and then another then the 6th as I get the hang of SPP.

I suspect the the 6th is the 1st in the binding order, still working on that. When I press down on the other pins they pop straight back up so I assume they are not first in the binding order I try and get to the 6th and thats where lack of access is defeating me (for the moment)

I will be making some more picks when I can get a wiper blade or something similar.
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MrAnybody

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Post Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: help with cutaway lock

scudo wrote:The pins not stuck as such it moves freely when I dont have the tension bar in, I think its the tension bar thats blocking access, I dont seem to be able to reach far enough only when the tension bar is in. Its probably just newbie issues that will come right eventually.
I will be taking some of the pins out later, probably start with 3 then add one and then another then the 6th as I get the hang of SPP.

I suspect the the 6th is the 1st in the binding order, still working on that. When I press down on the other pins they pop straight back up so I assume they are not first in the binding order I try and get to the 6th and thats where lack of access is defeating me (for the moment)

I will be making some more picks when I can get a wiper blade or something similar.


Definitely sounds like you need some more picks. I have one of these Sabre cutaways somewhere, and I don't remember any issues with it. If the locks functions well with the key, the lock is fine. With BOK tension (with pins at 6 o'clock), I can't see how you'd have any obstruction with regular tension tools. Think you just need more of a selection of hooks.

Keep trying, mate. It will work out.
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Gregted

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Post Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:43 pm

Re: help with cutaway lock

Another thing that might help. I just raided the skip bin outside the local auto parts store and scored lots of the steel inserts on wiper blades. These are perfect for slim lock channels and you can make as many or as long as you wish. Longer ones will give you more feel.

Hope this helps..
Aut viam inveniam aut ipse viam faciam
"I shall either find a way, or make a way myself."

“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.” ― George Bernard Shaw
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Gregted

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Post Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:53 pm

Re: help with cutaway lock

I made my picks from old hacksaw blades and they work great.

Just download templates and glue them onto the hacksaw blade and grind away anything that is not on the print.
picks.jpg


Also in pic are the tension wrenches I made from the wiper blade inserts.

And a small pick made from the wiper blade insert.
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Aut viam inveniam aut ipse viam faciam
"I shall either find a way, or make a way myself."

“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.” ― George Bernard Shaw
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Gregted

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Post Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:42 pm

Re: help with cutaway lock

Just re-read your post, Scudo and noticed you said you were pressing " down" on the pins. You might have more luck if you pick the lock with the pins pushing up.

When the driver pin and spring are held up, the key pin should have no tension on it and just sit in the bottom of the keyway. You should feel this lack of tension and know that pin is set.

I would recommend taking out all pins and start with one and then when you are used to that feeling, add another and so on... This helped me a lot at the start.

Later, you can mix them up and get used to different binding in different chambers.
Aut viam inveniam aut ipse viam faciam
"I shall either find a way, or make a way myself."

“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.” ― George Bernard Shaw
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TheNatural

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Post Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:15 pm

Re: help with cutaway lock

I agree with gregted. Start with one pin and move up. I would actually start by taking out all pins except for number 6 to see if you can set it without any other pins in your way and build from there. Good luck!!
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scudo

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Post Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: help with cutaway lock

Update;

I have now moved up to 4 pins (out of 6) I am still managing to single pick it ok but now I am getting a better understanding of binding etc. The fourth pin added a bit more difficulty which I feel made it much more realistic than when i had 1,2 and 3 pins only.

As previously I will stick with his for a few days before I add pin no 5.
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piotr

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Post Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:04 am

Re: help with cutaway lock

Hi scudo,

I think I have one of those cutaways so I'll try and reproduce your problem later.

I noticed that your hook is tall. You do need a tall hook but you also need a short and a medium hook to cover all pin arrangements. Your photo only shows the top of your picks and I am wondering if your picks taper out so that when you try and reach the last pin the shank of the pick is interfering, either hitting the warding or the tension wrench.

Gregted offered some good advice. Wiper blade inserts just go into landfill, it's a waste of good steel. Locate all of your local auto service shops and determine when their skips/dumpsters are emptied and raid them the day before they are emptied. Ask permission if you don't feel comfortable, the mechanics may even offer to set the wipers aside for you. You may get some odd looks--as I do when I collect street sweeper bristles--but stuff it, you are doing something good for the environment and saving money. Use the wiper inserts to make an assortment of tension wrenches, including pin-side-of-keyway (aka TOK) wrenches (just trim them down so they don't interfere with the first pin). If you can get wider wiper inserts you can also use them to make picks. They are superior to hacksaw blades.

Also agree with TheNatural, you should try pinning the lock with just the last pin and see if you can reach it without any impediment.
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scudo

Active Member

Posts: 275

Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:07 pm

Location: scotland

Post Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:37 am

Re: help with cutaway lock

I am wondering if your picks taper out
They dont taper out by much, they are southord picks.
I agree I need some less tall picks as I have fount interference in some locks when trying to access the the back pins. I also need some other tension bars, thicker ,thinner and shorter. The southord one is too thin for picking my filing cabinet so just made a quick fix from a thick paper clip and shaped and filed to size.

Landfill here wont let you take anything, they class it as theft as it is owned by the local council, however I will get some wiper blades and give them a go.
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piotr

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Location: Victoria, Australia

Post Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:51 am

Re: help with cutaway lock

scudo wrote:Landfill here wont let you take anything, they class it as theft as it is owned by the local council, however I will get some wiper blades and give them a go.


Can you get to it before it gets to landfill? Are there any auto shops near your work or home that you could visit? If there are I don't think they'll mind if you pick through their skips. Sweeper bristles are also good for picks and tension wrenches so keep an eye open for them in the gutters.

I have SouthOrds so I'll try picking the cutaway and report back if I find anything useful.

You have the right attitude, you persevere and you are willing to DIY so I think you'll do well with the hobby. :hbg:
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