MAR3 LKM Picking Keys

[MrWizard]

Anyone know where to find the MAR3 LKM Picking Keys for Ford, Chrysler, GM 94+.
I seen these on some site a while back and cannot find them now.
I thought it was on either Lockmasters or MBA USA site.
If you have seen these and can send me the link I would appreciate it.

This is what they look like and what the info is on them.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/384/xgt.gif

Richard

[MBI]

There are some other posts around here on them. They are also known as Marshal or Marshall keys if that helps you in searching for older posts. Anyone with a code cutter can make them, although due to the very deep cuts they can be a bit of a hassle to cut since when you do the second side there is very little for the jaw to clamp onto.

It's all about the technique. Some people say they are crap and they can't open a thing with them. I know one guy who has about an 80% success rate with them; he can open about 4 out of 5 cars with them, on any keyway these will fit. We experimented with some different cuts. I made the keys, he spent hours in scrapyards testing them on cars.

He found the ones I code cut worked very well, the ones he tried duplicating from the code cut ones didn't work very well for some reason. That was surprising since these operate on the very poor tolerances in auto wafer locks, so you'd think that the tiny bit of difference in tolerances between a code cut key and a duplicate wouldn't make enough difference to matter. Maybe he just wasn't very good at making duplicates. I'm not sure.

[MrWizard]

I cut a set by guessing by the picture those deep cuts are 4's and the high ones on the tip are 1's. Didn't work. I wonder why they cannot be found did they quit making them. Doing a Google search doesn't come up with anything.

I did a search here just now and see that half cuts are used and spacing is very different plus there are 5 keys for GM.
That would explain why these didn't work as I used standard spacing and full depths and only one key as there is only one key shown in the ad.

The spacing shown in searched post here is revered and off a little from standard spacing too is that correct it is suppose to be reversed? That doesn't seem like it would work at all.

I have one GM someone gave me that works on almost all I have tried it on. I checked it now and the spacing is off from standard I noticed it before but figured it was off from many times of being copied by many people. If anyone finds these still being sold anywhere post a link please thanks.

[Squelchtone]

MAR3 is available at Lockmasters...

must be logged in to view the product:

http://www.lockmasters.com/ecommerce/Ca ... 9&IID=2680

23 in stock, $29 each. not sure if that means set of 3 keys for $29 or each key GM, Ford, Chrysler is $29 each key.

hope that helps,
Squelchtone

[MBI]

You're right, they don't use standard depths and spacing. The one pictured is the most common one I've seen.

The guy I was working with had about ten different patterns he'd come up with. I cut keys and he tried them all out on two or three different keyways and quickly narrowed it down to about 5 patterns that sometimes worked. The rest were garbage. I cut more keys, one of each of the five patterns on the two or three dozen of the most common auto blanks, to see which of those five patterns worked best for any particular keyway/lock type.

The final goal was to make something of a "master set" of marshal keys for lockouts, with the fewest possible number of keys you needed to carry, with only one or two of the most effective patterns for each blank. We made some good progress before my partner had some personal problems that made him abandon his end of the research, and in fact his participation in lockpicking/locksmithing forums entirely. The problems were bad enough he even let the forum we were building languish and then didn't renew the domain name, or return my messages offering to take it over so it didn't die. I hope he's doing ok but I haven't heard from him in years.

In the end, I have some of the data from the research... buried somewhere in my boxes from when I moved, but I don't have anything close to that final list of keys we were trying to assemble.

[MrWizard]

Wow that is some back story regarding these keys. I never expected anyone had experimented that much with these. Too bad it ended like it did that is a shame. Many people would benefit from a good working set of these. I'm mostly concerned with just Ford, Chrysler, and especially GM. The one key I have works very well but would be better to have a few others when it doesn't work. I have one question about the spacing if you remember is it really cut reversed as seen on the post below.

http://keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1346&p=12146&hilit=Marshall+keys#p12146

It looks like the cuts are from tip to bow on that chart where as the spacing on my HPC12000 code card the first space is 1.034 from bow to tip so that is reversed from normal spacing. I will have to do some experimenting myself now I know changing depths and spacing and having 5 keys works better for at least GM.

And thank you too Squelch for confirming Lockmatster is the site I had seen the MAR3 LKM set on. I had not read the Steve Young article on the proper use of these. I have always inserted them all the way in and worked from back to front. I will have to try from front to back like he says to see if that makes a difference.

Richard

[10ringo10]

Yes there really not worth the time both retail wise and the cutting of ! like mbi I too have cut these and sold them...many moons ago !
the keys as you say work on half cuts 0.13 instead of every 0.26 cut but if you think theres a gap in the market I am more than happy to supply you with
the data to chop these ! good luck either way

This pdf will give you a head start Richard ! password needed to open after saving pm me

[MrWizard]

Thanks got it.

[rai]

I have a set of three, somewhere, got them online years ago
if mbis friend tried copying them and the copies didn't work, that could be an issue with the copying machine, could be a bit off or the mill wheel old and worn so it leaves a rough surface.
these things are really just some kind of raking pick, and for it to work well, the cut edge probably must be pretty smooth, the pins are wafers that would get a bit sticky if the cutter left lines across the cuts.