Reading Pin Tumbler Locks

[bobbybeatbilly]

Does anyone have success reading pin tumber locks? What tools do you use? I love impressionism locks and I think that being able to read pin tumbler locks could help speed up the impressioning process. I was looking at the http://www.lockpicks.com/usb-wr.aspx which is USB magnified wafer reader from Keedex. Not sure if it will work though on pin tumbler locks though because of the restricted keyway. So what are your tips and tricks?

[mseifert]

You can impression keys with a file, a pair of visegrips and a sharpe, and a few key blanks.. Here is a link to how it is done viewtopic.php?f=34&t=34&p=74995&hilit=impressioning#p74995

[bobbybeatbilly]

thanks for your post. I can already imression locks like I said and I enjoy impressioning. I'm just looking at some other fun ways to speed up the process. Impressioning is simply filing when you see marks. Somtimes I go past the point or of course slow down way to early. All in all I have mostly successes but I think it would be awesome to read the pins before and see which ones already looked deep or short, etc.

[mseifert]

Pin tumblers are pinned so that you cant see the break between the driver and the key pin.. If the shear line was in the key way you would dislodge the pin or it might just fall out..

[MacGyver101]

Not sure if it will work though on pin tumbler locks though because of the restricted keyway.

Unfortunately, even with a wide-open keyway, that approach won't work for you on pin tumbler locks.

The reason it works on wafer locks is that the holes in the wafers are located in different positions, depending on how high the wafer needs to be lifted... so you can just look into the keyway, and the pattern of the openings you can see in the wafers is exactly the same as the pattern you'd cut to make a working key.

Pin tumbler locks are different. The springs in pin tumbler locks push every pin down, so that they're all resting at the same level (until they're sitting at -- or slightly below -- the deepest possible cut you could make on a key). In other words, pins that need a deeper cut on the key won't be sitting down further into the keyway: they'll be at the same level as every other pin. There are other approaches that have been used over the years to measure the height of pin-stacks (and lock manufacturers have adopted some design changes, like balanced pin-stacks to prevent people from doing this)... but even with really poorly-designed pin-tumbler locks, you can't just look at the pins and directly read the cuts.

The only exception to this rule that I can think of is if someone has rekeyed a lock with after-market pins (and you know which brand they were using). Pin kits for rekeying (like LAB, etc.) usually colour the pins, to help you tell them apart... and, if the colour hasn't yet rubbed off, you might be able to read the colour and decode the bottom pins that way.

[bobbybeatbilly]

Thanks for your replies. That all makes sense. Well I guess I'll just stick with normal impressioning.

[DIY Dave]

Here's an idea you could try, I don't know if it would work. Pick the lock and rotate the plug 180 degrees (so the plug is upside down) you could look at the pins and see where they are resting. You would be able to read like a wafer lock because there would be no springs pressing the pins, they would just sit on the bottom. If the keyway is open enough, I believe that would work.

[Farmerfreak]

Yes pin tumbler locks can be read, not 100%, but enough to speed up the impressioning process.

step 1.
For example I will use Schlage. 0,1, and sometimes 2 depths the breaks in the pins can be seen. If you don't see any breaks in the pins cut the key down to 2's to start impressioning.

step 2.
If you are good at picking, pick the lock and turn it to any position where gravity is helping to hold the key pins towards the top of the keyway. look inside/feel around and get an idea of what the pattern is, such as pin 3 is deeper than pin 2 which is deeper than pin 4 which is the same as pin 5..

step 3.
If you have a set of depths keys that have been laser cut all the way across. While it's picked you can slide in each one and make note of how far they go into the lock. If the first cut is the deepest you will only be able to figure out exactly which depth the first cut is, but you will know exactly which depth it is!

It's very rare that I impression a lock without doing steps 1 and 2. I usually only do step 3 is the lock is fighting with me.

[Oldfast]

Great advice from Farmer. I'm not real good at "Step 2".... but that's usually the route I take. The more
you do it, the more accurate you'll get. I need more practice, but it gives me a general picture anyway.

[Froggy]

you can read some locks in particular if they have false cuts on the drivers using a small probe and a small otoscope

otherwise you can also eventually read the scratches on some pins .... it will speed up your impressioning process or even help you to make a working key quickly on the spot

to help you and remind you the cut heights in the field you can make some "playing cards" Here is an example of mine

[rai]

I really like what DIY DAve and Farmerfreak have offered

I have long used a cheat that helps with impressioning, first I get the initial marks to see the spacing on the blank
then I pick the lock and rotate the keyway about 90 degrees so I can put a half diamond pick in there and feel the pins, I look for the long ones and determine what space they are at by the way they deflect the pickshaft as the diamond comes over the pin.
I can also usually tell something about if they are very long or middling.
I cut these spaces to whatever seems like near but not past the appropriate depth,
this leaves the rest of the impressioning a quicker job since you don't have to work your way down the long depths much more than you would for the short ones.

I will in future use DIy's look and see method