Questions about SFIC - Why are they hard?

[subver]

So I was browsing the forum and saw it mentioned that someone should try a BEST brand SFIC after an American lock. Not knowing what SFIC was I had to do some searching (Small Format Interchangeable Core) - and from what I could gather.. it's essentially just a 7 pin cylinder.
Is that all there is to it? I think I'm missing something. Why is this giving people such a hard time? Is it just because there are 7 pins? Are there crazy security pins in there?

Also.. what is Control? From what I gathered it's basically a key that will allow you to remove the core? Am I way off base here?

Sorry if these are incredibly stupid questions.. I searched the forums but couldn't really find an answer to these questions.

If I wanted to buy a nice padlock with a hard to pick SFIC core, what should I get?

And also, what is the difference between SFIC and LFIC - is it the keyway size? I saw a few other acronyms that I didn't understand, either, but I guess I'll take it one step at a time.

Thanks for all the help guys! If there is a thread about all of this please feel free to direct me there and delete this post

[jeffmoss26]

The reason these locks are harder to pick is because they have multiple shear lines. One shear line is the operating/master, and there is a separate control lug which allows you to remove the core from the housing/padlock/lever etc. When picking, you generally do not know which shear line you are hitting, so it's hard to repeatably get to control, unless your name is xeo.

There are not usually security pins, though some locks do have them (see below)

SFIC stands for small format interchangeable core. All SFICs, regardless of brand, are the same form factor and will work together...a Best core fits an Arrow housing, a Medeco keymark padlock will allow a Falcon core, etc.

LFIC is large format interchangeable core and these differ both in size and operation between brands.

As far as hard to pick, the Arrow 1C and 1D keyways are fairly difficult. The Best PKS series (WA-WD) are also pretty tough to pick and have security pins. Myself and others prefer the older Best padlocks but just about any brand is pretty good. I think my first one was made by Master, the padlock itself was less than 15 bucks.

[elbowmacaroni]

Yeah, I'd say Jeff pretty much covered it there, although I would contend that the matter of not knowing which shearline your at isn't really the issue per se, as you can explicitly tension a specific shear. Now, that said, you don't necessarily know which part of the pin stack you have at the shearline you are tensioning as there are at least three segments in a given pin stack the keypin, a control wafer (much akin to a master wafer) and the driver.

So, I think that is what Jeff was really getting at there and the rest is dead on, so hopefully our comments help you wrap your head around it.

-Elbow

[easy-e]

*edit* got beaten to it.

Kokomolock does have a nice video about the Schlage LFIC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KdQsY_BdcU

[subver]

Hmm ok. So when you guys say that there are more than one shear line, is that different than multiple shear lines with a master key? As in multiple key pins or driver pins, but still one actual line?

[xeo]

Hmm ok. So when you guys say that there are more than one shear line, is that different than multiple shear lines with a master key? As in multiple key pins or driver pins, but still one actual line?

Multiple shearlines as in one operating shearline, and a secondary mechanical shearline for the control bitting that allows the core to retract from the housing. Far more difficult than just a single shearline lock with master pins.

[xeo]

You may want to read, this: viewtopic.php?f=95&t=7540

[subver]

Ahhhhh ok, thank you xeo!
You're the best.

[xeo]

Check this out: http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/sfic/

[subver]

Check this out: http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/sfic/

Ah, that helps! Very cool... Now I need to find a padlock with an SFIC just to have!

[keymaster1053]

Check this out: http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/sfic/

Ah, that helps! Very cool... Now I need to find a padlock with an SFIC just to have!

if you want to paypal me 25 bucks, I'll send you a used one with keys, postage included.
Jim
keymaster1053

[subver]

What kind of padlock is it?

[keymaster1053]

American brand, with a Falcon or Arrow core. I pin the cores myself, and punch however many keys you need.

[subver]

Oh awesome. I do want it but I've just spent a ton of money on padlocks and need to relax my wallet. If ya still have it in a week or two I'll buy it, though
Thanks!

[keymaster1053]

lol. ok. I should, I have many.
Jim.