AM 5200 - Difficult pin configurations

[fgarci03]

Heya!

Thanks to my friend GWiens2001, I've been playing for the last few days with 3 American Padlocks 5200.
I'm currently almost 100% focused in picking serrated pins, thus repining my locks every couple of minutes and try new combinations.

My question is, what combinations of driver pins you find more difficult, thus needing more atention and practice?

I tried: all serrated, 3 serrated and 2 spoorated (standart config), 4 spoorated and 1 serrated; finding this last one the most difficult. I'd like to know if there are other configurations that you find more difficult so I can practice a bit more.
I'm talking about driver pins configurations, not the key pins.


I am also willing to listen (or in this case, read!) suggestions about picking them. I think I got pretty good at picking them (not as good as Oldfast ahaha), at least for my level of skill. But I'd like to know more about serrated pins. or example, I still cannot put to words how I feel they are set. I just know, period. Why is that? I thought it might have something to do with the rotation of the plug being a little more pronounced when they set than when they just click on a serration (but still a lot less than a spool false set). And there is a slight counter-rotation if I try to go further. Or sometimes it's about the audible click they make when they set or just false set on a serration.
But I sometimes get it wrong. So I still don't know EXACTLY what to look for when picking them. I just trust my gut. OK, it has been correct, but I like to know the science behind it too. Not "just knowing" it's set...

For example: Although I take much less time picking an all serrated driver than a 3 serrated and 2 spoorated, I think I understand better what is going on inside the lock on the second. On the first it's really only gut. When I feel like they set, they, in fact, are. Don't know how to explain wtf I just did. And I can't also say it's just luck, because I pick them fairly consistently...

HEEELP!


Thanks!

[xeo]

Practice enough so you can feel and hear the true set from a serration. Increase your tension if you need to.

[fgarci03]

Hey xeo, thanks!!

Increase your tension if you need to.

My picking style is actually using medium/heavy tension to find the binding pin(s) and reduce it untill it pops (without bending the pick ). Not sure if it's the best way, but it works fine for me

Practice enough so you can feel and hear the true set from a serration.

Yeah I know, I just wanted to know if I was doing anything wrong. Since I don't always get it right by the sound and feel, I wanted to know if I'm pointing the right way and need to work from there, or I'm looking for completely different things and just being lucky!

[xeo]

Well I can write an exhaustively long detailed description of what to exactly look for when picking serrated pins but it really is as simple as knowing when you've hit the shearline. Is there a specific question you have?

[easy-e]

Since you cross posted this on the light side and I saw it there first I'll respond here as well. Xeo, Solomon, Oldfast, and rai really helped me in this thread last night and some things just clicked for me which made the security pins on my commando locks feel like a joke. I actually now feel like security pins make the lock easier because you get specific feedback from them which is repeatable and predictable.

I haven't picked a AM 5200 but I have picked other locks with serrated pins. I agree that it's more experience and gut instinct about how it feels. I've noticed basically the same things you have.

When I start I shoot for getting into a false set. When I'm lifting on a pin stuck in a serration I feel it trying to grind it's way out while slightly counter rotating I'll lighten up on my tension and get back into the false set. If I'm still getting the same feeling I'm probably in another serration so I repeat. If it feels solid or the plug has rotated further I assume I've completely set the pin. If I ended up overlifting the pin I make a mental note and start over if I can't get the pin to drop back by lightening up on the tensioner. I move onto the next pin to see if I feel the same grinding/counter rotation and repeat the same process. If I'm not sure about a pin I move to the next one and then come back. As long as I can keep track of which pins I've already lifted and set I don't have any problems. After resetting a few times you have figured out a few pins for certain and you can adjust your game plan accordingly. I always have the most issues getting the first pin or two set but after that it's just knowing which types of pins might be in the lock and attacking it accordingly.

When I'm picking a lock with a combination of serrated, spool, and spoorated pins I shoot for all of the serrated pins first. Once I get into that deeper false set I know I only have spools left. If I lift a spool and end up in a shallower false set I know I'm back in a serration which I know should be at the bottom of a spoorated pin and I just need to lift it a bit further.

[fgarci03]

Xeo, Solomon, Oldfast, and rai really helped me in this thread last night

I actually found it works great, when I first started picking spools! If I only knew that when I started lockpicking...

When I'm picking a lock with a combination of serrated, spool, and spoorated pins I shoot for all of the serrated pins first. Once I get into that deeper false set I know I only have spools left. If I lift a spool and end up in a shallower false set I know I'm back in a serration which I know should be at the bottom of a spoorated pin and I just need to lift it a bit further.

I have found that I in many locks I can't just pick the regular (or serrated in this case) driver pins first. I pined a 5200 with 4 spoorated and 1 serrated and the 1 serrated didn't bind. Only like after I set 2 spools before.

I believe that those 2 spools at rest, were blocking the sheerline with their larger part. So they acted as regular pins here.
I've also picked a 6pin MTL Garrison 7x7 (yes, 7x7 with 6 pins!) all spooled that didn't go to false set untill I picked a few pins.

[easy-e]

I have found that I in many locks I can't just pick the regular (or serrated in this case) driver pins first. I pined a 5200 with 4 spoorated and 1 serrated and the 1 serrated didn't bind. Only like after I set 2 spools before.

I believe that those 2 spools at rest, were blocking the sheerline with their larger part. So they acted as regular pins here.
I've also picked a 6pin MTL Garrison 7x7 (yes, 7x7 with 6 pins!) all spooled that didn't go to false set untill I picked a few pins.

Yeah, I've had a problem getting into a false set too. Once I get in I'm good and I can work the system but sometimes I have to get out one of my rakes to get the ball rolling. Shoot I had one lock that was already in a false set, all I had to do was tension the plug! If only life was that easy.