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Using Heavy Tension

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easy-e

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Post Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:03 pm

Using Heavy Tension

I've noticed recently that using heavy tension helps me find the binding pins easier but I keep bending my picks. I have Peterson carbon steel picks and I've been looking to upgrade to the government steel. I bought the carbon steel to try out the profiles and now that they offer government steel with plastic handles it's a lot more affordable.

So what is the trick of using heavy tension? I read this in the Peterson Prybar Graveyard thread:

Aedalas wrote:
piotr wrote:So do you use a pulsing tension: (i) heavy torque to get a bind then; (ii) reduction in torque to set binding pin; and (iii) back to (i)?
That's my preferred method but I've never managed to break anything. My guess would be he goes straight to (iiiii) or so then up to at least eleven.


This makes sense but in practice I'm still heavy handed. I really bent my medium hook because I thought I was lifting a spool, but it turned out the pin was set and never moved. I bent it back, but ever sense it just doesn't seem as strong. I also bent another pick because I actually had to counter rotate the plug to get a pin past the deep false set. Obviously I just need stronger picks!!!! I probably should have lightened up more on the tension but I swore it was going to move.

Anyways, I've had moderate success using it with security pins and pretty good success on older locks with no security pins. I know this has been discussed in a bunch of different threads but I didn't want to bump any of them.
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Solomon

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Post Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:34 pm

Re: Using Heavy Tension

I use medium-heavy tension to find the binding pin and get settled on it, then reduce my tension to actually set it. Personally I like to feel the resistance from the pin as it moves into place (and there's a much more noticeable click as it sets), so I know where you're coming from, but it's important to find a balance. You can actually get away with ridiculous amounts of tension if you're careful with the pick, but you'd do well to find that nice grey area between heavy and light to avoid bending the shit out of your tools. Not only that, but it can be harder to differentiate between pin states if you're piling the tension on too much as well.

Look for an amount of tension that gives you the feedback you want, but doesn't cause you to struggle at the same time.

The way I do this is to push gently on the binding pin and reduce the tension until it moves with that amount of pick pressure. Once the tension drops enough for the pick to move it, you'll be able to feel the pin shifting, almost as if it's pushing back against you a little, until it pops into place. I dunno if I'm explaining this the best but hopefully you get what I mean. Basically instead of piling on the tension and forcing it, just push on it gently-ish then reduce the tension until it wants to move. Once it starts to shift under that pick pressure, hold your tension just like that and you'll feel your pin glide nice and smoothly until it sets.

Try this with a lock that has only one pin in it, then add each pin stack one at a time until it's fully pinned... it's a really good exercise; I wish I'd done it when I first started because it would've cut my learning curve down dramatically. Not only for the general technique, but for differentiating between pin states as well. Knowing the difference between a set pin and one that's binding is something a lot of people take for granted. So take your time, and don't add anything until you're 100% certain you've found the balance you're looking for. Tension and pick pressure should work together to get the most information from the lock as possible, they aren't meant to gang up on the pins and try to force them into place.

Once you set your first pin using this method, I usually find that from there I can hold that same tension without having to increase it for locating the next binding pin, but it depends on the lock. If you can't feel aything binding and increasing the tension doesn't help, then you've overset something and need to drop a pin or two. You should be back to feeling binding as normal from there. :mrgreen:
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xeo

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Post Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:30 am

Re: Using Heavy Tension

Precisely what Solomon said.
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The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
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rai

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Post Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:32 am

Re: Using Heavy Tension

I always tell people light tension, and most of the time it is the best way, but....
sometimes heavy is all that will work, still, just dont' overdo it, its a balance, don't just bind the pins with force, when using heavy tension work toward the lighter end.
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easy-e

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Post Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:04 am

Re: Using Heavy Tension

This is all great information. I started this thread because I'm not very familiar with when/how to use Heavy Tension because I haven't really needed to use it. What I consider heavy tension is probably not as high as Xeo :mrgreen: I seem to mainly have a problem judging proper torque on my "easier" locks with either no, or very few, security pins. I have found light/medium tension works well most of the time and I need to chill and not pile on the tension out of frustration. I have some older locks that I have to pile on the tension to get any pins to bind or set. Once I get some rekeyable locks with security pins I might try the progressive pinning approach.

I've been practicing a lot on my commando locks because of the various security pins. I have some brinks padlocks with spools that this same technique works well on. I threw all of the keys in a box so I'm not tempted to cheat. I've been starting with moderate to heavy tension until I get into a false set. Once I get the false set I can tell by how far the plug has turned if I'm stuck on only spools or also on some serrations. I've been trying to focus on getting the serrated pins set first. I pile on the tension and check the feel of each pin to try to determine which kind it is, set, false set serration, or false set spool. While lifting serrated pins they don't feel very springy and they feel like they want to move. They hop/grind right out of the serration as soon as I remove some tension. If I'm in a false set with some serrated pins the fully set ones might feel like serrated pins too. If I lift one of them and I don't get back into a false set I make a mental note that I over lifted that pin and start over if I can't get the pin to drop by releasing some tension. If it was truly a security pin, I would end up back in a false set. Once I see the plug turn significantly, I know I'm in a deep false set and that I only have spools left. The fully set pins feel solid even when I let up on the tension a lot. When lifting a spool they feel very springy and try to significantly counter rotate the plug. I generally have to counter rotate the plug a bit to get past spools. This is where I've bent picks while trying to use heavier tension to force the spool past the sheer line without dropping other pins.
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Oldfast

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Post Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:11 am

Re: Using Heavy Tension

I'm all about heavy tension, but it must be varied... otherwise, as you mentioned it'll tear up your tools.
A couple of Xeo's videos and you'll quickly see what 'varied tensioning' is all about. lol
Personally, I use a sort of light-medium heavy tension... nothing insane.

As beginners, when we ask about tension we're bombarded with words like light, super-light, or even feather-light.
Although that might work great in some instances, I think for the most part it really hinders our ability to feel and
differentiate what's going on. It makes it difficult to identify binding pins and makes it VERY easy, especially for
beginners
, to over-lift pinstacks. It's like looking through a foggy window. I rarely if ever use really light tension.

As a general rule... the heavier the tension, the more pronounced the feedback. Binding pins are much more noticable.
You can feel the friction as one is being lifted. And you can both feel and hear very crisply when you hit the shearline.

Just keep at it. Eventually you'll find your balance that allows you to pop locks WHILE preserving you picks.
I can't really add much to what Solomon has already said. He's done a beautiful job of putting into words.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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easy-e

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Post Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:30 am

Re: Using Heavy Tension

Oldfast wrote:I'm all about heavy tension, but it must be varied... otherwise, as you mentioned it'll tear up your tools.
A couple of Xeo's videos and you'll quickly see what 'varied tensioning' is all about. lol
Personally, I use a sort of light-medium heavy tension... nothing insane.

It seems like most of the experience pickers use this to some degree. I love Xeo's videos. I've been trying to watch everyone's so I can take what works for me from each person's style.

Oldfast wrote:As beginners, when we ask about tension we're bombarded with words like light, super-light, or even feather-light.
Although that might work great in some instances, I think for the most part it really hinders our ability to feel and
differentiate what's going on. It makes it difficult to identify binding pins and makes it VERY easy, especially for
beginners
, to over-lift pinstacks. It's like looking through a foggy window. I rarely if ever use really light tension.

As a general rule... the heavier the tension, the more pronounced the feedback. Binding pins are much more noticable.
You can feel the friction as one is being lifted. And you can both feel and hear very crisply when you hit the shearline.

Yeah, most of what I read was along the lines of the lightest possible tension but I'm finding more tension gives me more feedback. When I first started out I didn't even realize I had picked one of my masters because I wasn't using enough tension to turn the plug. There is also no way to clearly define light/medium/heavy tension. Obviously if you are breaking prybars then that is heavy tension :mrgreen:

Oldfast wrote:Just keep at it. Eventually you'll find your balance that allows you to pop locks WHILE preserving you picks.
I can't really add much to what Solomon has already said. He's done a beautiful job of putting into words.

You guys are the reason I keep coming back to the dark side...
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xeo

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Post Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:55 am

Re: Using Heavy Tension

I know I have a reputation for using ungodly tension. But that really is not the case. As I'm sure you've seen, I bounce my tensioner around constantly in an almost rythmic fashion as I test around for binding pins. What exactly am I doing? Well... I pick a little differently than the traditional method when it comes to finding binding pins. I still feel for springyness and such but there is also another method I use:

Let me try and explain this. Consider the following relationships:

1. The force required to lift a pin is a function of the amount of tension you're using. The harder you tension, the harder you need to lift on the binding pinstack.

2. The amount of force required to overset a standard keypin is also a function of the amount of tension you're using. The harder you tension, the more force is required to overset a keypin.

3. The amount of force required to overset a keypin is MUCH larger than the amount of force required to set a binding driver to shear. This is because you must force the keypin past the shearline.

Now, if you tension at 8 on a scale of 1 to 10 and lets say the force on the same scale required to overset a keypin is 8, you can safetly lift with a force of 1 to 7 without fear of oversetting keypins. If you tension at 3 on a scale of 1 to 10 you have now DRASTICALLY reduced your range of available force when lifting pins and have greatly increased the chances that you will overset something or disturb pins you did not mean to. This is precisely why I like the high side of the tension scale. It gives you much more room to screw around with.

This is not the only reason however, the biggest reason for this. Here is the "different method" I mentioned earlier: Instead of trying to find a binding pin through traditional methods of testing for springyness etc you can just apply the same amount of force to each pinstack to see if something will lift. If you tension at 8/10 and apply 6/10 to every pinstack chances are you will move something. This is extremely helpful in high high tolerance locks where you can't afford light tension and doing so would be suicide. This also works great on countermilling, crazy ASSA drivers, etc. The first thing I do on a lock is feel it out to see what the thesholds are and how hard I can lift with my comfortable tension level where I can do what I need to do without breaking my tools. With enough practice on enough locks you'll figure this out and see what I mean.

So, why do I bounce around my tensioner like a bucking bronco? Well.. I like to go from around 4 to 7 on a scale of 1-10 while testing around. It just lets you apply a large range of forces to pinstacks quickly to see if they will nudge. It has become more automatic muscle memory now I do it without even thinking about it.

I Hope this helps you.
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The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

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xeo

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Post Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Using Heavy Tension

easy-e wrote: This is where I've bent picks while trying to use heavier tension to force the spool past the sheer line without dropping other pins.


ALWAYS reduce tension to light/medium when working with a spool.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

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easy-e

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Post Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:42 pm

Re: Using Heavy Tension

I sat around last night and picked all 9 of my commando locks multiple times last night using the information you gave me. I had a good idea of what I should be doing but I tried harder to focus on letting up tension as I lift and using about a 7/10 tension to feel around the lock and then going town to a 4 or a 3 when lifting. Thanks again. I'll let you know if I have any more specific questions.

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