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wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:26 pm
by deathitself7
I took apart an old sargent lock to see what kind of pins were in it and when I took the plug out I counted 15 pins. there were 5 the same size and 10 that had different sizes. I was a bit baffled so I thought I could get some of your opinions.

I will attach some pictures so you can see what I'm talking about. the first picture I attached is of the first pin/ pins that were in the plug, it doesn't show the one that was in the bible. the second picture is of the plug and bible without any pins in them. the third is a picture of 4 of the 3rd set of pins I found, I only took a picture of 4 because you can see the 5th one in the first pic. the fourth picture is of my cat in case anyone wants to see him.

alright If any one has any explaination as to why the extra pins are there please post below.

Re: wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:00 pm
by awol70
those would be mastering wafers.. the pins are stacked to create separate shearlines.

Re: wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:12 pm
by Houndour
Yeah, so two keys were designed to open that lock man. The standard key which would have been given to a contractor or customer of some kind. And the Master key, which would open that lock, plus a load of others just like it but with different settings for every other customer/contractor.

Let me guess.... it was extremely easy to pick? Usually, from what the master Awol says, this makes it twice as easy to get a combination of pins to the sheer line and pick because there are so many pins.

Re: wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:29 pm
by m0ose
Houndour wrote:Yeah, so two keys were designed to open that lock man. The standard key which would have been given to a contractor or customer of some kind. And the Master key, which would open that lock, plus a load of others just like it but with different settings for every other customer/contractor.

Let me guess.... it was extremely easy to pick? Usually, from what the master Awol says, this makes it twice as easy to get a combination of pins to the sheer line and pick because there are so many pins.


Yes, Agreed. I've personally Master key'd a few of my locks and it makes it sooo much easier. Litterally one rake can blow right through them with a snake. Obviously it depends on the pins and the bitting, but either way Master Pinning makes it a whole hell of a lot easier.

Re: wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:47 pm
by Houndour
Oh the irony haha

Re: wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:06 am
by hordo2
wow interesing stuff.

Re: wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:31 am
by Wozzlock
Learn something new every day... never knew about that master key thing!

Re: wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:26 pm
by awol70
Houndour wrote:Yeah, so two keys were designed to open that lock man. The standard key which would have been given to a contractor or customer of some kind. And the Master key, which would open that lock, plus a load of others just like it but with different settings for every other customer/contractor.

Let me guess.... it was extremely easy to pick? Usually, from what the master Awol says, this makes it twice as easy to get a combination of pins to the sheer line and pick because there are so many pins.



actually, if the last three pins had mastering wafers that would make 3x3x3 27
possible different keys you could make to fit that lock.
my math may be off, but do you understand what i mean?

Re: wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:51 pm
by 93940joe
ya i know we established everything here but the proper term for "the other key" is called a change key....and the other is called a master key.

Re: wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:45 pm
by Wozzlock
Has anyone got some more info / pics on this master key thing? I understand the principle of how it works, but I'm having a hard time imagining the pin set-up for say... 5 locks, 5 keys, 1 master.

I've been scribbling down pin set-ups, but I just can't get it to click in my head! :oops:

Re: wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:01 am
by m0ose
Bender wrote:Has anyone got some more info / pics on this master key thing? I understand the principle of how it works, but I'm having a hard time imagining the pin set-up for say... 5 locks, 5 keys, 1 master.

I've been scribbling down pin set-ups, but I just can't get it to click in my head! :oops:


I covered Master Keying in my course. I really don't feel like transcribing word for word, but basically the master key is cut at a certain depth so that it meets the sheerline for the master pins, which if I remember right, sit on top of the driver pins. From there you must use the right combination of pin length to achieve a good set of change keys. There are a couple rules to master systems. Some of which I can't remember, but I do remember that no pin next to each other should ever have a difference greater then two lengths between them. Or in others words, if you have a 6, you can't put a 3 pin next to it.

If I get time I'll read up on it again and give you some more accurate information, because right now I'm working 100% from memory, and it's been a while.

Edit: Damn I hate dropping the "'t" :P

Re: wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:04 am
by Jinglesanator
Kitty smiling....... (LOL)

Re: wierd pins I found in a old sargent padlock

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:26 pm
by Wozzlock
Thanks Moose!