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Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:58 am
by kilby
Oldfast wrote:That's GREAT to hear Rob!! Thanks :D I only wish you were in the States...
I'd consider sending a couple 1100's :( Maybe ebay would be an option for you?


Ebay is always an option (provided my wife doesn't find out)

I missed a few last Friday and it could be a while before some more UK based ones turn up

But as I said thanks for the guide it made a huge difference

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:28 pm
by subver
Quick question.. I'm a little unclear on the whole thing with Master Lock buying American out... are ALL 1100 and 520 series locks still the "good" ones, or does Master Lock make these series as well? How can I tell which ones are good and which aren't?

Anyway.. I'm looking for a lock a step or two above a Brinks Maximum Security padlock... from what I gather I should be looking for an 1100 or 5200?

Thanks!

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:44 pm
by Oldfast
Unfortunately, I cannot give you an exact date as to when they started making changes.
I can tell you that most of them you'll see going on ebay will still be the old originals.

The major differences to spot are the keyway and keybows.
Here's some pictures of the major differences (courtesy of Matt)

And yeah, an 1100, 1105, 5200... any of them would be fine.

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:53 pm
by dicey
Oldfast, since you seem to know a lot about American Lock.
Can you maybe tell me in what series American or Junkunc did the milled in craters in their shackles instead of the cut outs?
Do you know if that feature is mentioned in any patend? (It is not being shown in the patents I have here)

Here is my video on my Junkunc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRyoevYVglA

I enjoy it very much.

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:04 pm
by subver
Awesome thanks Oldfast! As far as differences.. it looks like the new American locks have a very shallow dimple on the keyhole and the keys are round... I'm assuming just looking at the key is a dead giveaway? I'm going to my local locksmith later on because he carries them.. I just want to be 100% sure I get a good one!

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:15 pm
by GWiens2001
The keyway is the best indication. The older keyways are more squared on the angles, while the newer ones are more beveled. Don't forget that some people and shops may not use genuine American key blanks on a used lock, so the blanks may have a different head.

Gordon

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:37 pm
by subver
Perfect. I actually just ordered one on eBay for $11 (free shipping!) - from the pictures it looks like an old one. It's dated from 2009 as well.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-AMERICAN-1105-Black-Padlock-with-Aluminum-Body-Comes-with-2-Keys-/260995299165?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc488375d

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:04 pm
by Oldfast
dicey wrote:Oldfast, since you seem to know a lot about American Lock.
LOL... well, I dunno if I'd say that! Much better at pickin' em' than diggin' up history.

dicey wrote:Can you maybe tell me in what series American or Junkunc did the milled in craters in their shackles instead of the cut outs?
Do you know if that feature is mentioned in any patend? (It is not being shown in the patents I have here)
First off, my apologies Adrian... as I recall you inquired about
this sometime ago, and I don't believe I ever responded! :oops:

When writing the article about a year ago, I could've swore I remember finding a patent Junkunc held
in regards to the double ball locking. However, as I look around now... I see only a few patents... one
of which is for the double-sided wafer lock. The fact that YOU cannot find a patent pertaining to the
ball bearings makes me doubt myself even more. So I guess at this time I cannot honestly say that the
idea was patented or even if it originated with this company. Maybe someone else will chime in?

As to when the "milled in craters" were used as opposed to the more modern day "cut outs"....
I unfortunately seem to be of no use to you yet again, lol. I can tell you, as I look through all the
American locks I have... only one has this older style shackle like yours does (pictured at the
beginning of this article
). Also, I don't believe they even used the 'series' system, or date codes
for their locks at that point... making it difficult to put an age to them. I did email them, but
I'm not expecting much of a response (if any). But I'll certainly let you know if I hear back.

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:06 am
by dicey
I have a patent of the H10 here showing the ball bearing locking mechanism. So I am pretty sure they invented it or at least were very early with it. I do however have no information on those milled craters for the ball bearings.

Nevermind mate I will open a thread in the Antique Locks Forum and we will see what the history specialists can dig up there ;)

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:03 pm
by subver
Do we know which American model padlock the ACE padlocks are? My 1105 should come in the mail tomorrow but was debating on finding an ACE hardware and checking their locks out. Might just go out and get one either way, not sure if they're still the good American locks or the new Master Locks or what... but I can always check out the keyway and stuff and try to determine (thanks to those photos you linked me earlier, Oldfast)

EDIT: There are 2 ACE hardware stores near me, neither had the lock but one place is ordering it for me and he said it SHOULD be here tomorrow. This is the one I ordered: http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1286414 - so hopefully it's the one I want! It looks like it is from the description (5 pin anti-pick spool tumbler and rekeyable and removable brass cylinder, Shackle is also replaceable & removable)

Gonna keep my fingers crossed it's not a new Master Lock version!

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:02 pm
by Oldfast
dicey wrote:I have a patent of the H10 here showing the ball bearing locking mechanism. So I am pretty sure they invented it or at least were very early with it.
Ah good, that's comforting. I was beginning to wonder if I had presented some inaccurate info.
dicey wrote:Nevermind mate I will open a thread in the Antique Locks Forum and we will see what the history specialists can dig up there ;)
Please, do enlighten us if you're able to dig up any new info.


subver wrote:Do we know which American model padlock the ACE padlocks are? .....EDIT: There are 2 ACE hardware stores near me, neither had the lock but one place is ordering it for me and he said it SHOULD be here tomorrow......
Not certain, but my guess is that it's modeled after a 5200? Anyway, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.
My local ACE has quite a markup... so nearly everything is a bit pricey in my opinion.
But I will say, they do make a fairly decent lock. Not awesome, but fair.
I have one like you ordered, and it's actually built quite well imo.

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:10 pm
by subver
Oldfast wrote:Not certain, but my guess is that it's modeled after a 5200? Anyway, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.
My local ACE has quite a markup... so nearly everything is a bit pricey in my opinion.
But I will say, they do make a fairly decent lock. Not awesome, but fair.
I have one like you ordered, and it's actually built quite well imo.


Yeah the guy I talked to said it was $15 I believe. Not bad, but I just got an American 1105 for $11 free shipping on ebay.. I got scared for a minute, too, because that same ebay user posted another lock with the same exact photos of the one I bought.. I was afraid he was just using the same photo, not realizing it was a Master Lock version.. but I sent him those comparison photos and made him check for me, haha - he said it's the good one.. was made in 2010 I believe. I might buy another one from him actually.

I'd like a 5200 as well... just hard to find a good price on eBay with shipping..

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:45 pm
by subver
edit: please disregard. I thought my 1105 was key retaining and it's not

I got my 1105 in the mail today, though, wahoo!

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:43 pm
by subver
Woo, pick open the 1105! It has a 72675 bitting, so it had a bit of a low high low which I wasn't used to (I admittedly looked for locks with easier bittings.. I know.. I know.. I'm cheating)
I almost didn't even realize I picked it! I thought I just got it into false set and none of the pins were giving me any feedback, but lo and behold - I just needed to turn the lock open hard enough. Almost bent up my little wiper TOK tension wrench I made.. so I'll have to make another one a bit more sturdy. I've got Peterson Prybars coming, though.. so I think they should help.
I'm actually surprised I got it this fast! I gotta buy more now.. I definitely see why people love these locks :)

I'll be getting that ACE lock tomorrow... can't wait to check it out.. hope it's what I'm looking for!

Anyway, thanks for all the help with American locks Oldfast and everyone else.. really appreciate it :) Now I've got the bug.. I must get more!

edit: I just won a lot of 3 US Army American 5200 padlocks for pretty cheap, yay! Maybe I won't even bother with the $15 ACE padlock then.. I'll have to think about it.. I've been spending way too much money on lockpicking stuff the past couple weeks haha

PS I apologize if I've been getting a bit off topic here as well :P

Re: AMERICAN LOCK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:52 pm
by Whiskeyfox
Hey folks! Whiskeyfox here, I'm new to locksport and these forums, appreciate you folks having me. I'm in Florida and I came across lockpicking from prepping and survivalism. I have a youtube channel dealing with gear and such, and have already posted two lock related videos.

I'm replying in here tonight because I just scooped up a 1982 American 5260 off ebay for $22.50 shipped. I hope I didn't over pay, but I it was the only older model available. I think i'm ready for the harder challenge of the American lock, or at least I should be by the time it arrives.

I also wanted to talk about the Master owned aspects of this thread... yesterday I went to Lowes and Home Depot to find a more challenging lock and all they had were Master locks. I was shocked. We have entrusted the security of this country to poorly made Chinese locks... these guys are laughing all the way to the bank, and the bad guys are toting our bikes and goodies away. It really is a shame.