Squire 440 - levers not binding

[Solomon]

This thing could drive a man crazy! I've taken a number of approaches and nomatter what I try, the levers all move freely with no binding whatsoever. Sometimes it feels like 4 is binding, but if I release tension (and pick pressure) completely then try to move it with just the pick, it still won't budge... so I'm hitting a blockage in there somewhere. Not sure what this is; when the pick is inserted as far as it can go, it should be right on the 4th lever as the tension bar prevents it from going past that point. Any idea what could be snagging my pick? Before the obvious answer comes up, it's not a matter of it being too big. I compared it with the key and it's the perfect size.

I opened the shackle and returned the bolt to its closed position so I could see what was happening to it (aswell as the first couple of levers inside). When I was applying tension I could feel a little movement, but I wanted to see if the bolt was actually moving or if I was hitting something else by mistake. It's definately moving, that's for sure. So, the tensioner is on the bolt... but the levers move freely as if no tension is being applied.

You'd assume this was an issue of tension amount. I know I did, anyway. I inserted a key with an allen wrench through it and used that to gauge the amount required to throw the bolt. It's not actually as much as I thought... so I tried using that amount, and adding a little as I went along, to try and feel for binding. I tried more than twice that amount just to see if I could get a lever to bind, and still nothing.

Makes no sense, right? So, I figured maybe the bolt wasn't being tensioned correctly after all... and of course I decided to tension it directly just to see. Keep in mind that the shackle is in the open position, and the bolt is closed, so I was able to insert a regular tensioner down where the shackle goes and push on the bolt that way. I put the original tensioner into the keyway to act as a base for my pick wire and started moving the levers as I was before, and it's the same story. I can see the first 2 moving, very smoothly I might add, and the other 2 give me the exact same feedback. What's going on?

How on earth can I be tensioning the bolt heavily and not getting a single lever to bind? I feel I have a pretty good understanding of what's going on in there and what should be happening, but this is really weird. No problems opening it with the key - and if it opens with a key, it should open without... so what's the problem? It's a standard 4 lever padlock and as far as I can tell it should be a nice easy job to pick.

Give me something, anything at all... I'm all out of ideas.

[the lockpickkid]

You would ruin the lock perhaps, but what would happen if you drilled a hole somewhere on the lock in a place that would allow you to get a better view of the levers while you try to pick the lock, if anything you could get a better idea of what has to be done to open this thing. I would also see if you could cut the back off or something, anything. Thats all I have!!!!

[Solomon]

These can be taken apart somehow, but I'm not ready to do that just yet.

I started playing with it again today after cracking a couple of locks that had given me trouble before, so I was feeling confident. What I decided to try today was, leave it in the open position and try to pick it closed - I figured this way I could see all the levers and would be able to take that binding order, reverse it and use that info to pick it open again. Obviously I can't see the gates, but I can tell which lever I'm on and how high it's being raised.

No dice.

I've learned why my pick was getting snagged though, it was going behind the 4th lever. Speaking of which, when in the open position I can set this lever... but after that, nothing binds. I'm assuming it isn't set correctly, but I'm raising it as high as it'll go and from the key bitting it does set very high. There is a distinct click when I release tension and it resets.

Making progress, anyway... at least now I know the 4th lever is going to be the last to set when I pick it open. Just need to figure out the order of the others now! Hopefully it shouldn't be too hard to figure out the binding issue.

[the lockpickkid]

These can be taken apart somehow, but I'm not ready to do that just yet.

I started playing with it again today after cracking a couple of locks that had given me trouble before, so I was feeling confident. What I decided to try today was, leave it in the open position and try to pick it closed - I figured this way I could see all the levers and would be able to take that binding order, reverse it and use that info to pick it open again. Obviously I can't see the gates, but I can tell which lever I'm on and how high it's being raised.

No dice.

I've learned why my pick was getting snagged though, it was going behind the 4th lever. Speaking of which, when in the open position I can set this lever... but after that, nothing binds. I'm assuming it isn't set correctly, but I'm raising it as high as it'll go and from the key bitting it does set very high. There is a distinct click when I release tension and it resets.

Making progress, anyway... at least now I know the 4th lever is going to be the last to set when I pick it open. Just need to figure out the order of the others now! Hopefully it shouldn't be too hard to figure out the binding issue.

I don't know much about lever locks, so correct me if I am wrong! Is it possible that there are the security indentations (false gates) on the end of the levers that hang up, not letting it go in, all safe deposit lock levers have these, also, are you rasing the levers too high?

[barbarian]

Are you really, really sure you are on the right spot on the bolt ?

Is the tensioner moving sideways or tilting a bit and jamming on the lock body somewhere ?

How about overlifting ? This works really well on some locks. Lift the levers as high as you can all at the same time, then apply tension. As you slowly remove the tension you should feel the levers drop, and maybe get caught at the right spot.

You are gonna feel so good when you do get it...

[Solomon]

I don't know much about lever locks, so correct me if I am wrong! Is it possible that there are the security indentations (false gates) on the end of the levers that hang up, not letting it go in, all safe deposit lock levers have these, also, are you rasing the levers too high?

Nah, the 440 has no false gates. It's a fairly cheap padlock with bog standard levers. I'm lifting them as high as they'll go, but I'm doing it slowly... believe me, if they were setting at some point along the way, I'd know about it.

Are you really, really sure you are on the right spot on the bolt ?

Is the tensioner moving sideways or tilting a bit and jamming on the lock body somewhere ?

How about overlifting ? This works really well on some locks. Lift the levers as high as you can all at the same time, then apply tension. As you slowly remove the tension you should feel the levers drop, and maybe get caught at the right spot.

You are gonna feel so good when you do get it...

It's a dedicated tension tool, you can't really go wrong with them. I've seen guys using the exact same one and holding it the same way as I'm doing. It fits perfectly, it's the right length and thickness, there's no slippage or anything. You can angle it back and forth a little bit, but it doesnt make any difference... it's just something in the locks personality that I need to figure out.

I'll see if I can make a J-wire to see what effect overlifting has, but I doubt I have any wire thin enough lying around. That tensioner takes up quite a bit of space!