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false set..no pin will move

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insatiableOne

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Post Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:12 pm

false set..no pin will move

After successfully picking my new American 1100 twice. Decided, well let me figure this guy out, then purchased eight more off ebay.

So, problem.. figuring out some binding order, i think. Problem arise when i pick the bottom pin one click, pin 4 two clicks, pin three...deep false set. Then I am unable to get any counter rotation from any pin? Don't get it??

Amy ideas, here. Watched all the video I can, didn't see this issue ever. When any of the Abus locks, or even the Master 911 gave me a deep false set. I was like whoohoo, I got you now. This time sadly no. Never had a core lock up and give no feedback, have tried again, and again, and again..did I say again? Seriously stumped here.

Tried releasing all tention to get counter rotation on a pin, tried forcing them. ??

Even if I go through the stack one click at a time, when I eventuall am getting this deep false set, same deal.
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Patrick Star

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Post Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:31 pm

Re: false set..no pin will move

Are you sure you haven't actually picked it and just need to crank harder on the tension because of the spring pressure...?
Happens to the best of us!
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insatiableOne

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Post Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:15 am

Re: false set..no pin will move

Sadly no. That has happed before, many times.

This is something a bit different. I am unable to determine the binding pin as none will move. Other than the couple springy ones the rest feel bound up solid.
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insatiableOne

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Post Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:44 pm

Re: false set..no pin will move

I tried all night, couldn't recreate this problem from yesterday that produced time and again.

perhaps like you said it was open? Had thought that lesson was learned long ago, maybe not. Got opens today so cannot complain just confused on the struggle from the all night prior. As in hours of it, the only reason was asking if this one had trick or two.

Thanks for looking. Guess by the time I run through the eight more of these coming, might be better at these.
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supallama

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Post Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:49 pm

Re: false set..no pin will move

I have heard of many having this issue before, usually its a spool hiding somewhere / already picked but the spring makes you think its a false set but you said you already checked that, you may need a taller hook, i found my deforest diamond works pretty well in those 1100s.

good luck!
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xeo

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Post Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: false set..no pin will move

The very old American Lock brass bodied padlocks can go into what I call a "deadlock" false set where you get no counter-rotation when lifting a spool pin caught on the shearline. You have to manually turn the plug backwards until you can lift the pin and then reapply tension to finish the set. I've had my hands on at least 3 or 4 of these that behaved this way, so that's enough to say it isn't a fluke.

Is this what you have?
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

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insatiableOne

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Post Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:54 pm

Re: false set..no pin will move

xeo wrote:The very old American Lock brass bodied padlocks can go into what I call a "deadlock" false set where you get no counter-rotation when lifting a spool pin caught on the shearline. You have to manually turn the plug backwards until you can lift the pin and then reapply tension to finish the set. I've had my hands on at least 3 or 4 of these that behaved this way, so that's enough to say it isn't a fluke.

Is this what you have?




YES!!!
Now I wrote that in the what have you picked today thread. Had to completely back off then crank the pin up. Then it opened.

But, today it didn't do it? Had me questioning my skill-set.
Need to look and see what pick I was using in the picture. Now yesterday and today was using the 18 thousandths purple standard peterson hook. Have been using the offset diamond, but it wont fit in the 1100. Don't think?

Might need a thicker prybar I think am using the .040 falls out when back off too much. was going to get the .050 and sadly did not yet. Or might make one to fit if these are going to be a pain like this often.



went back to see what i pictured, was using the diamond, then used the standard hook that the issue arose.
download/file.php?id=16272&mode=view
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xeo

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Post Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:45 am

Re: false set..no pin will move

OK... that is not what you have. I'm talking about the vintage American Locks that are fully brass bodied. The one in your picture should not deadlock on you. It is possible you're overlifting the first two pinstacks judging by the bitting.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

░░░░░░░░░░░░░Image
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insatiableOne

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Post Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:21 pm

Re: false set..no pin will move

Then it would be caught above the shearline unable to move back down?

Thought it acted exactly like you explained.
I'll chalk this up to drunk driver minus the alcohol.
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insatiableOne

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Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:54 am

Re: false set..no pin will move

Just got these in the mail, lets see if any act differently.
They all have different bitting. But they are 1105's what is the difference?
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