Help Needed Removing a FSIC

[MrAnybody]

I have a zero bitted PL4001 Series Kryponite padlock with a Schlage FSIC core. I have 2 zero bitted keys and no control key. Key profile is 'EF'.





I want to pin it up, and cut the keys. But I'm having trouble removing the core.

The way I understand it, I have to hit a 7th pin or protrusion at the back of the keyway to get the core to out.

With the key inserted (or picked) the plug rotates 90 counter-clockwise, as well as the clockwise to open. So I'm assuming I need the counter-clockwise position to extract the core. Would that be correct? Or will the core remove regardless of the position of the plug when I nail the pin?

I'm still unsure if I'm in contact with the control pin at the back of the keyway, even though it's easy enough to count back the 6 pins and then focus behind the 6th.

And even if I am in contact with the control pin, I'm having trouble finding a way to manipulate the plug to put the necessary pressure on (what could be) the pin, and also the pressure needed to bring out the core. Any tips on that? Anyone got any tool mods to help out with that? I've been looking at the form of what I think is the control key to see if I'm in the right direction.

Do I need counter-clockwise rotational force, as well as the above? I'm thinking not, but just want to confirm.

I'm also assuming this would be the correct form of control key. Am I right?



Would much appreciate a hand on this. I've not dealt with a SFIC before.

Need help on:
Position of plug for it to be removed.
Any tips on identifying the control pin.
Any tips on manipulating the core to remove it.
Any tool mods to do the above.
Counter-clockwise pressure to remove core or not.
Confirmation on the form of the control key.

EDIT: Jeff pointed out I got the core wrong. I'd got the "F" and the "S" wrong way round So I'd written SFIC when I should have written FSIC (Full Sized Interchangeable Core). Sorry guys. And my thanks jeff.

[MrWizard]

All you need to do is raise the 0 cuts level and the 7th control pin to a 6 depth. It turns to the right to remove the cyld. Try using the back side of a standard hook pick lift all pins and slide it back and forth to try to get the control pin to a 6 and retain the 0 cuts. Cyld only turns to the right to about 1 O'Clock position to retract the control retainer. Or get a control key blank with all 0's the 7 cut is factory cut to a 6 depth or modify and EF blank to a 7 pin and cut all 0 cut for the first 6 and the 7th to a 6.

Richard

[Robotnik]

To add to the above, any operating key cut on a control blank will remove the core of a Schlage LFIC, so one thing I've done is take my operating key and add a small amount of lead-free solder to the tip. After doing this, file it (Dremel is helpful) to a 4 depth along with removing material from the sides so your addition will pass the wards. You'll have a temporary control key, one that will work long enough to remove the core.

EDIT: Solder isn't the only thing that works either; I've successfully used Fimo clay and epoxy; am sure there are other materials as well. In most cases, the additional material can be removed and the key returned to service (though I wouldn't do this on the only operating key you have for the lock )

[Riyame]

Control is CW.

So, can you pick it? Does it pick to open with 6 stacks? I am wondering if it might be a 5 pin lock since you can't feel a 7th pin which would make the 6th the control pin.

Here you can see control is about 15-20°. There is spring pressure when you get control so you will know you got it and will need to use a bit more tension. The silver pin on the side of the bible is the control lug.

[jeffmoss26]

It's an LFIC so the E keyway control blank should work.
I have one of these locks on its way to me

[MrAnybody]

It's an LFIC so the E keyway control blank should work.
I have one of these locks on its way to me

That's curious, Jeff. Every source I can find tells me the PL4000 Series is a SFIC, not a LFIC.

[jeffmoss26]

SFIC is small format interchangeable core aka BEST
LFIC is large format interchangeable core, Schlage likes to be even more different and use FSIC for their cores.

[flywheel]

I have found the definitive source for core removal...complete annihilation of the plug. Good luck.
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=60388

[MrAnybody]

SFIC is small format interchangeable core aka BEST
LFIC is large format interchangeable core, Schlage likes to be even more different and use FSIC for their cores.

Yep, thanks Jeff. Silly me. Typed SFIC instead of FSIC.

Many thanks for pointing that out. Now edited original post.

[selim]

Yes Mr. A turn the plug upside down , and feel for the control pin while keeping a CW tension on your pick

[mdc5150]

If you have the ability, cut the top and bottom shoulder on one of the blanks. Put a #6 depth cut on the very end of the blank and it will act like a control key. If it were not in the padlock Selim's method would work but in the padlock that plug will only turn to about 4 o'clock.

[Robotnik]

To resolve the discrepancy on referenced control pin depth cuts (both here and on the corresponding LP101 thread), I grabbed a key gauge and a control blank; depth is 6. My mistake .

[MrAnybody]

Huge thanks to MrWizard, Riyame and Selim for their spot on advice. All is sorted.



Very nice to do, since a FSIC is not something we come across in European locks.

To confirm the really cool advice in the above posts, the FSIC is secured in the padlock body by the pin you can see at the back of the core housing. This is withdrawn back into the core by putting pressure on a 7th pin (if it's pinned up as a 6 pin) that sits at the back of the keyway.

Normally, this would be done with a longer Control Key that has a extra cut. This cut (a 6 cut) is the same regardless of the bitting on the key. It's pre-cut on blanks. When the Control Key (which also has the correct regular bitting) is turned clockwise about 20 degrees, the securing pin on the side of the core is withdraw back into the core, and the core can be removed.



There was no Control key with this one like you can see above.



I used the zero bitted key to measure the length of 6 spacings of the key. You can see above I put a piece of tape to show me the correct length from the 6th cut to key shoulder. With that, the 6 zero bitted pins can be set at the shearline with the underside of the pick, and the Control Pin can be pressed with the curve of the hook. It took a bit of massaging to get it at the right depth, but it worked well.

Now repinning can be done no worries.

Huge thanks for your help guys.

[jeffmoss26]

I love it when a plan comes together!!

[GWiens2001]

I love it when a plan comes together!!

Yeah, Jeff "Hannibal Smith" Moss has spoken.

Gordon