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Assa 701 - strange "pins"

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Puritanen

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Post Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:22 pm

Assa 701 - strange "pins"

I have an old Assa 701. I disassebled it and found something that I have never seen in a lock before. This:
iPhone 021 (280x375).jpg


If you can't tell by the picture it is two pins (keypin like) protuding from the lock. They are not spring loaded and as far as I can tell perfectly aligned with chamber no 6. Now to the really strange part: When i pushed out the plug with the plug follower it got stuck on those pins - of course, since they are not springloaded. But how on earth could the plug itself fit in there?! The plug looks pretty much like a normal plug and have no millings that could allow the plug to be inserted. Now the plug is impossible to push back in.

Here is a photo of the "pins":
iPhone 022 (280x375).jpg


What happened here and what are those pins?

//Puritanen
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xeo

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Post Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:47 pm

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

Probably anti-drill pins... I can't see closely enough but it looks like they're not properly lined up with the chambers to be trap pins.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

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Puritanen

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Post Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:56 pm

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

xeo wrote:Probably anti-drill pins... I can't see closely enough but it looks like they're not properly lined up with the chambers to be trap pins.


Sorry for the bad photo, but they are in fact lined up with one of the chambers (as far as I can tell). The pins are made of brass and in the back of the lock, so I guess it's not anti-drill pins. I like the trap pin idea! But if it is trap pins - how would that work?
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xeo

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Post Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:09 pm

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

They would drop into the keypin chambers of a picked lock's plug and seize the lock.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

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Wizer

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Post Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:14 am

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

Yep, they are trap pins.
I´ve got a similiar cylinder. And the trap pins do not just drop into the plug, there is a pinstack with a spring and two pins parallel to keyway (sideways compaired to normal pins) that pervent the trap pin to be just pushed back from the keyway. You can see a pin and the column next to the mounting screws in your pickture.
Very nasty, I can´t imagine any way to reset the trap pins if the cylinder was in a door.
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GWiens2001

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Post Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:11 pm

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

Thank you Wizer. I was trying to figure out how those pins could be reset from the pictures.

I suppose if it was in the door when the trap pins fired, you would need to find another way in, then remove the lock assembly from the inside.

Gordon
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rai

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Post Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:53 pm

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

You are very lucky to have dissasembled it without falling into that trap.
:)

wheres the just plain smiley, all those offered are so negative.
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Puritanen

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Post Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:02 pm

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

Wizer wrote:Yep, they are trap pins.
I´ve got a similiar cylinder. And the trap pins do not just drop into the plug, there is a pinstack with a spring and two pins parallel to keyway (sideways compaired to normal pins) that pervent the trap pin to be just pushed back from the keyway. You can see a pin and the column next to the mounting screws in your pickture.
Very nasty, I can´t imagine any way to reset the trap pins if the cylinder was in a door.


How evil! (Thanks for explanation!)
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fogcreature

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Post Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:25 am

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

awesome! i have to get me an assa. on top of the 2 shear lines, badass milling, and many other security features. this lock is booby trapped against picking. thats great!
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huxleypig

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Post Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:41 pm

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

The only way I can see to get round firing these trap pins would be to file the protrusion down with a needle file. That or pack something down the bottom of the keyway to keep it from firing before you turn the plug?
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xeo

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Post Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:01 pm

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

huxleypig wrote:The only way I can see to get round firing these trap pins would be to file the protrusion down with a needle file. That or pack something down the bottom of the keyway to keep it from firing before you turn the plug?


There are ways to get around trap pins using a pick. If just one drops into a keypin chamber you can lift it and set it like a normal pin and it will bind. Others you need to kind of use your pick to hold the keypins up as you turn the plug. I have an M&C euro cylinder with multple trap pins in it that are much smaller in diameter so you can't really "pick" them out of the chambers, you need to kind of prop up the keypins and hope you got it right. They can be very devastating.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

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huxleypig

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Post Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:00 am

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

xeo wrote:
huxleypig wrote:The only way I can see to get round firing these trap pins would be to file the protrusion down with a needle file. That or pack something down the bottom of the keyway to keep it from firing before you turn the plug?


There are ways to get around trap pins using a pick. If just one drops into a keypin chamber you can lift it and set it like a normal pin and it will bind. Others you need to kind of use your pick to hold the keypins up as you turn the plug. I have an M&C euro cylinder with multple trap pins in it that are much smaller in diameter so you can't really "pick" them out of the chambers, you need to kind of prop up the keypins and hope you got it right. They can be very devastating.


Yeah, I can see that some shoot into the keyway and can just be pushed back in and others go into the pin chambers and can be picked like normal pins. If I understand the trap pins in the OP though, once they fire into the keyway they can't be pushed back down at all, right? Because there's another spring loaded pin that sits against the base of it and when the trap pin fires this 2nd pin shoots underneath where it used to be making it impossible to push it back down. Or have I got that wrong? Because if that is right then if the trap pin is in the keyway you could file it down but if it happens to go into a pin chamber then the lock is effectively ruined, right?
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GWiens2001

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Post Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:06 pm

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

You got it, HP. Unless you have access to the inside of the door so you can remove the lock, it is rotary pick time.

Gordon
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Puritanen

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Post Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:25 am

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

As Gordon says, if you can access the lock you can save it. You can "open" the chamber to the trap pin from the outside of the lock and remove the trap pin.
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elbowmacaroni

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Post Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:22 am

Re: Assa 701 - strange "pins"

Well, it's a good thing they don't go into blind chambers especially just for them that are not accessible from the keyway then!
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