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Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

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huxleypig

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Post Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:22 am

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

Lol, I completely agree Piotr, it is a horrible video!

Great info and pictures, thanks!

Was the video in the OP the one if the lock being decoded, or the one of the Protec being self impressioned though? I think we are talking about 2 different tools here?
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piotr

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Post Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:59 am

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

huxleypig wrote:Was the video in the OP the one if the lock being decoded, or the one of the Protec being self impressioned though? I think we are talking about 2 different tools here?


Possibly, I don't remember the video in the OP so you are probably correct that it is a different video.
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piotr

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Post Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:30 am

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

This appears to be a demo of a prototype of the tool (which Barry Wels took from YT before the owner removed it):

http://www.blackbag.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/abloy-protec-decode.avi
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piotr

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Post Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:41 am

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

The person that is selling the tool--which uses the nickname doppiamappa (which means "double map" in Italian)--is an expatriate Russian named Daniel Atanasov who operates from Sofia, Bulgaria. He appears to be the person posting the (low quality) videos.

I suppose the incongruity between the asking price for the tool (9,000 EUD) and the videos that look like they were shot from a c. 1990 mobile phone is what strikes me first. I am also puzzled as to why the person that is asking 9000 EUD for a decoder is not willing to put their name to the product but is instead playing hide-and-seek on YouTube and various blogs. This is to be contrasted with Falle, Li, Dangerfield, Pink etc. This just doesn't make any sense to me.

The other peculiarity is that with the exception of Multipick in Germany all of the distributors that Mr Atanasov has chosen for his very expensive tools appear to be small scale operations (see http://turbodecoder.com/dealers/). On the company website when you click the "Prices" tab you get the message "ALL prices are confidential information. The decoder is not offered to private locksmiths." But clearly this isn't true because it can be purchased from his ditsributors such as Multipick.

Image

Image

The handles of the probes appear identical to the anodised aluminum handles of the Dino lock picks (right down to the two supporting rivets) so I guess that they are being made by the same (Chinese?) company that makes the Dino picks.

Image

My knowledge of the Abloy range is limited but I'm guessing that the set of seven probes corresponds to the seven possible cuts. I'm also guessing that the probes are driven down the groove in the make-up key. The displayed probe is labelled "0.35" which I have no idea of its meaning. That same probe is marked with graduations that I'm guessing correspond to the disk being probed. The scale is odd though, it runs 1,2,3 space 5,6,7,8,9,10. Why no number 4? I am uncertain what the purpose of the additional three probes is.

The laser pointer still appears to be a part of the design even though it isn't pictured. The larger templates with the extended radii suggest this. The smaller, circular templates appear to be for rim cylinders and they too have overly extended radii rather than simple marking which again suggests the use of the laser pointer to indicate the cut based on the angle of rotation.

I have no idea what the purpose of the question mark-shaped pieces is. The key-shaped pieces withe the circular bow also has me stumped.
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ARF-GEF

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Post Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

Isn't doppia mappa italian for double bitted as in double bitted keys?

Interesting stuff btw :)

I thought the question marks show teh agnles insted of the laser pointer now, but that is just an idea :)
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escher7

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Post Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:50 pm

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

I am no expert on the Protec, but I note the following interesting things from the pictures:

- The make-up key is an unusual design that allows the insertion of bits (numbered from 1 - 6) contained in the black boxes so both sides of the key are reproduced.
- The picks are marked with depth indicators for each progressive disk.
- One of the code boxes is marked as a spacer.
-The black circular devices are marked "centre the scale before --?".
- The bottom of the "question marks" is shaped to fit the Protect keyway. They also appear to have a long groove in the top loop.
- The lock shape on the circular indicatores is smaller than that on the larger, square indicator.
- The two button shaped tools are likely to insert the bits onto the key.
- The numbers on the square template are sequential from 1 - 6, and then 3,4,5,1,2.
- As noted, the depth numbers omit the number 4.
- The long "pick" seems too long for the cylinder.
- What is the function of the square box in the case?
- It is clear that the small round scales turn inside the larger, square scale,
but what would be the device they turn on, since nothing has that shape?

Just some observations to think about.

Addendum:
The bottom of the question mark, (the part that fits the keyway) appears hollow. Possibly the long pick fits through the slot at the top of the question mark and down through the hollow bottom into the lock. This would explain the length of the pick. The depth marks would be read off the top of the question mark and its rotation could be read against the square template.
Just a theory, but what else could the question mark be for?
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piotr

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Post Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:12 am

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

ARF-GEF wrote:Isn't doppia mappa italian for double bitted as in double bitted keys?


Ah yes, that is more likely the intended meaning given his profession. Well done.
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piotr

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Post Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:23 am

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

escher7 wrote:I am no expert on the Protec, but I note the following interesting things from the pictures:
- What is the function of the square box in the case?


I suspect that the square box contains the laser pointer device, as per the prototype in the video and consistent with the templates with the extended radii. The templates with the extended radii would not be needed if a mechanical pointer was being used or if the code reader had the cuts marked upon it; by that I mean that the radii would not need to that long. The length of the radii suggests the continued use of a laser pointer which sits atop the code reader device.

You made some very good observations which have helped make sense of the collection of pictured items.
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piotr

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Post Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:33 am

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

escher7 wrote:- The bottom of the "question marks" is shaped to fit the Protect keyway. They also appear to have a long groove in the top loop.


Excellent observation!

So it appears that the make-up key is distinct from the decoder (presumably comprised of question mark tool, picks/probes, laser pointer and templates).
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piotr

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Post Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:45 am

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

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huxleypig

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Post Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:24 am

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!



Presenting the H&H piece of shit. Despite clearly saying "For Abloy" on it, there is not a single Abloy lock that this will pick! It is complete rubbish. UNLESS there is some secret technique for it that no one knows about. Everyone I speak to about it is in agreement, it is a complete waste of (a fair amount) of money.

It is intended to pick the Abloy classic - with the standard half moon profile. However, it has one very big problem in that it simply can't turn the discs with anti-pick cutouts on them (so at least 1 in every Abloy classic, so every Abloy Classic) because the diameter of the pick head is too small.

So then, could it be of use on the Abloy knock-offs that don't use anti-pick discs? Well, again, no. The only way this tool can work is if you are fortunate enough to get a lock that binds up exactly from back to front. So that limits the number of locks that this tool is useful for down to pretty much none.

The only real use for it (in my opinion) is after you have decoded an Abloy Classic knock off. If you had a different tool that could decode the gates then this tool could be used to dial the discs to those decoded gate positions. Again, this would be achieved by going from sequentially back to front. The anti-pick discs would need to be overcome on a proper Abloy Classic for this approach to work.

To this end I have tried to make my own tip for the tool. Whilst it is still an undoubted improvement over the original pick tip, it is still a little imprecise and unwieldy. I have plans to do it properly when my milling machine finally gets here.
Last edited by huxleypig on Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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piotr

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Post Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:03 am

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

Thanks huxley, much appreciated.

Is the H&H Mul-T-Lock decoder (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-MUL-5Pins-R-locksmith-tool-lock-pick-lock-decoder/1558995651.html) any good or is this a POS also?
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huxleypig

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Post Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:36 am

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

No, but that is because the MTL picks are made by H&M, not H&H! They might be the same company for all I know but I suspect H&H are just knocking off the name of H&M.

Anyway, the MTL picks are generally known to be good. I have used the most recent version and it seemed nice. I wouldn't bother getting a MTL Garrison pick though, they are easier to pick by hand. The MTL Classic and MT5 will be easier to pick with the H&M tools though.

**EDIT**Having said that, the picture in your link clearly says "H&H" on the end of the pick...so I am unsure now. Bottom line is the MTL picks are good, the Abloy is awful.
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escher7

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Post Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

piotr wrote:
escher7 wrote:- The bottom of the "question marks" is shaped to fit the Protect keyway. They also appear to have a long groove in the top loop.


Excellent observation!

So it appears that the make-up key is distinct from the decoder (presumably comprised of question mark tool, picks/probes, laser pointer and templates).


Here is a clearer picture of the hollow keyway and groove on the question mark device:
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escher7

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Post Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:52 pm

Re: Video of what appears to be a successful PROTEC attack!

Piotr:
If you look at the video of the prototype you will note that:
1. The depth markings are at the top of that device (which also looks like a question mark), as I think they are here.
2. The pick/decoder is moved to the side at times, which would explain the wide groove on this question mark, i.e. to allow
pivoting of the pick.

I do agree that the template seems identical to the one in the first version and there may well be a laser in the box. I also
think that two-pronged key-like device with the circular top may fit in to the picture somehow.
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