Sat May 21, 2016 9:23 pm
Question about ASSA Twin Drivers
So I picked up an ASSA Twin from the "Large Lot" section of Security Snobs. I'm happy to learn by progressive pinning, so I pulled it apart to learn how it works.
I started out by working slowly up from driver chambers [1,2] + side pin [1,2]. After a LOT of work, I was getting it. Learning the feel, and generally being happy.
I progressively added side pins until I could get all five along with driver [1,2]. Then I added driver 3 and things went to hell. I only got it once, and could not do
it again to save my life.
Now, this lock came with ASSA drivers unlike any I had seen before. They were not the
that we are all used to seeing, but very very deep single-sided spools.
Picking them CW, I could lift all five stacks up past the countermilling, picking them all to sheer, but once on the side pins, they would wedge so badly that I could not lift them. Backing off
on the tension and manually counter-rotating the plug would just cause everything to start dropping. Picking them CCW, the lock would fall into a very deep false set and the
spools could not be lifted out of the countermilling without manually counter-rotating the plug. Compounding this, the very deep false set in countermilling was indistinguishable
from everything being picked to sheer and sitting on the sidebar.
So, I could pick the top pins CW, but it would wedge up the side pins. I could pick the side pins CCW, but could not tell when the drivers had all been lifted past sheer and I was on the sidebar.
I worked on this for a long time, bending up picks and shaking my fist at the damn thing. Eventually, as I was juggling around pin arrangements, I lost one of the drivers. Unable to find the
single-spools for sale anywhere, I ordered a set of ASSA double spools that I understand are newer. After replacing the original single-spools with these, I had the lock picked with all stack on
camera the same day. I thought I was lucky, so I picked it again, and again. The lock had become much easier to pick because lifting the double-spools up through the countermilling was no more
difficult than your average threaded challenge lock. I could also easily tell when everything was past sheer and ready to work on the sidebar because the core would counter-rotate and feel spongy
as XEO describes in his writeup.
So I guess the first thing I am wondering is if the deep single-spools were even from ASSA, or if they were somebody's customization. Assuming they are older ASSA pins, why in the world the company
would have consciously made the decision to move away from a spool / countermilling combination that made the lock very near impossible to pick to one that actually gives an attacker a fairly clear
path to opening it?
I'm also wondering if anyone else has experience with the deep single spools? Did you get it picked? Do you have an extra pin that you would sell me? I'm thinking of making one that is as close as possible
to the original just to see if I am ever able to get it picked in that configuration.
Finally, I'm wondering if I cheated by using the newer spools? Is there something I just don't know about newer ASSA locks that make the double-spools more effective than they were in my lock?
Thanks for your time guys, and your help understanding this oddball situation I find myself in.
Here is the video if it clears anything up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu90_npXo3w
I started out by working slowly up from driver chambers [1,2] + side pin [1,2]. After a LOT of work, I was getting it. Learning the feel, and generally being happy.
I progressively added side pins until I could get all five along with driver [1,2]. Then I added driver 3 and things went to hell. I only got it once, and could not do
it again to save my life.
Now, this lock came with ASSA drivers unlike any I had seen before. They were not the
that we are all used to seeing, but very very deep single-sided spools.Picking them CW, I could lift all five stacks up past the countermilling, picking them all to sheer, but once on the side pins, they would wedge so badly that I could not lift them. Backing off
on the tension and manually counter-rotating the plug would just cause everything to start dropping. Picking them CCW, the lock would fall into a very deep false set and the
spools could not be lifted out of the countermilling without manually counter-rotating the plug. Compounding this, the very deep false set in countermilling was indistinguishable
from everything being picked to sheer and sitting on the sidebar.
So, I could pick the top pins CW, but it would wedge up the side pins. I could pick the side pins CCW, but could not tell when the drivers had all been lifted past sheer and I was on the sidebar.
I worked on this for a long time, bending up picks and shaking my fist at the damn thing. Eventually, as I was juggling around pin arrangements, I lost one of the drivers. Unable to find the
single-spools for sale anywhere, I ordered a set of ASSA double spools that I understand are newer. After replacing the original single-spools with these, I had the lock picked with all stack on
camera the same day. I thought I was lucky, so I picked it again, and again. The lock had become much easier to pick because lifting the double-spools up through the countermilling was no more
difficult than your average threaded challenge lock. I could also easily tell when everything was past sheer and ready to work on the sidebar because the core would counter-rotate and feel spongy
as XEO describes in his writeup.
So I guess the first thing I am wondering is if the deep single-spools were even from ASSA, or if they were somebody's customization. Assuming they are older ASSA pins, why in the world the company
would have consciously made the decision to move away from a spool / countermilling combination that made the lock very near impossible to pick to one that actually gives an attacker a fairly clear
path to opening it?
I'm also wondering if anyone else has experience with the deep single spools? Did you get it picked? Do you have an extra pin that you would sell me? I'm thinking of making one that is as close as possible
to the original just to see if I am ever able to get it picked in that configuration.
Finally, I'm wondering if I cheated by using the newer spools? Is there something I just don't know about newer ASSA locks that make the double-spools more effective than they were in my lock?
Thanks for your time guys, and your help understanding this oddball situation I find myself in.
Here is the video if it clears anything up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu90_npXo3w
Keep at it and it will come. One thing I found helpful was to put the sidebar in with just one or two pins. That way you learn to tell when you have rotated enough to put the load of your tension of the bar and off the drivers. I can't imagine trying to learn how to pick these things without progressive pinning!