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cisa antisnap cylinder

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femurat

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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:08 am

cisa antisnap cylinder

I got this cylinder without a key, with a dent on the front and so gummed up I was not able to pick it. I decided it needed to be disassembled and cleaned.
The first thing this cylinder teach me is I should have disassembled it another way. I cut off the bottom part, the antisnap bars, but it took me three dremel disks and not all the the bars came out. Then I decided to cut the bottom parts around the back rivet to pull it out. Once finished I found out this was NOT a rivet but just a simple rod. Heck I should have pushed it out :cry:
I pushed out the other one and all the bars came out without effort.

The six pins were now free to fly everywhere, but I managed to keep them in place by sliding out the last bar very carefully and slowly.

I made a simple wooden stick to replace the bottom rods, installed it and made two holes for the screw and rod to keep it in place.

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I'm not sure about the model of this lock. I guess it's an AP3 but I may be wrong. The lock has 6 active pins on the bottom, a few passive on the right side and a few passive on the top. The last one on the top is quite strange, it looks a solid piece and has a spring attached. Any idea on how should I mount it? I disassembled this cylinder some months ago and can't remember if the spring should go towards the key or towards the cylinder... here it is

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Cheers :)
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10ringo10

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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:42 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

Did the exact same thing last year to make a practise lock out of this puppy ! but found the pin very easy to knock- tap out ??? and also found they are very easy to snap

I will never recommend this lock again for its anti-snap protection based on these findings ! and the FLAW :soldier: a pin that can be easily removed that secures the snap protection
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ARF-GEF

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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:34 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

Cool lock, thanks for posting Femurat :)

Is this the one where you see 2 black rectangles on the front at the bottom like a sideways black "="?
To infinity... and beyond!
=== WARNING DANGER OF TYPOS!===
Arfspeak: calnin cladycomes: you allow her key in themodning
Equals in plain English: cleaning lady comes: you allow her key in the morning
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femurat

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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:46 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

Hey ringo, this is not an Astral. The Astral is a basic model, this is a more advanced one. Nice practice lock you have there :)
About the flaw you mention, keep in mind that you have to remove two pins and the screw to remove the antisnap bars, so the lock must not be mounted on a door. I don't see this as a flaw.

You're right ARF-GEF, the antisnap bars are some blacks and thin in the center, and two chromed and thicker on the sides. They do look like ||

Cheers :)
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10ringo10

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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:05 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

LOL ! come on that's a astral double euro ... same as mine and only one pin needs to be removed on the outside to weaken and snap the the lock housing out .
The 6 black :D anti- snap strips and centre chrome strip have been removed on mine ! replaced by a metal bar to hold pins in pic.
Last edited by 10ringo10 on Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ARF-GEF

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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:12 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

Then new Multlock interactive + has the same fixing method for the anti snap bar. I actually like it because if you screw sth up you can easily disassemble the lock by removing the metal bridge. (The chambers can be emptied from the bottom.
There is a very similar method with almost all the anti snap bridges I can think of, Keso, Abloy...

Yeah you can remove it by a screw, but that screw is far below the surface of the door. Plus the screws on the other side are still supporting it. I can't imagine how can you remove the sidebar with a half-decent installed lock, at least without immense destruction on the door.
What am I missing there Ringo?

Anyways you say you found it still easy to snap, which is a much more easy-to exploit flaw IMO...
To infinity... and beyond!
=== WARNING DANGER OF TYPOS!===
Arfspeak: calnin cladycomes: you allow her key in themodning
Equals in plain English: cleaning lady comes: you allow her key in the morning
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10ringo10

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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:20 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

True on those locks they are screws and very hard to get to ! the pin on the cisa astral simply tap,s side ways VERY easily indeed
without going into the details too much ! for me this is a shocking discovery

Keep in mind that 80% of doors are upvc these are fitted to ! not solid doors
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huxleypig

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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:32 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

The CISA Astral S? Anyay, I think I am right in saying the anti-snap bars are made from laminated metal? To make it bendy but not break, right?

I got showed a video of one being snapped, Ringo is right, they are rubbish when it comes to snap protection. They are ok at horizontally but vertical pressure and they give it up really easy.
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ARF-GEF

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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

And they are extremely strong. I had a bit of fun with a Keso anti snap bridge, and man that thing is insane...
Ah I missed my main point: that is not laminated just s rod of very strong steel. So it probably withstands force in both ways.
To infinity... and beyond!
=== WARNING DANGER OF TYPOS!===
Arfspeak: calnin cladycomes: you allow her key in themodning
Equals in plain English: cleaning lady comes: you allow her key in the morning
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huxleypig

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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:24 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

Those anti snap bars on the Cisa Astral S are not good, that's why they have introduced the sacrificial anti snap front to it on newer versions. I've seen them snapped.
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ARF-GEF

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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:33 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

Ah I meant the ones on the keso are strong. Sorry edited the message stupidly :D :D
I beleivbe you that the astal is crap :D
To infinity... and beyond!
=== WARNING DANGER OF TYPOS!===
Arfspeak: calnin cladycomes: you allow her key in themodning
Equals in plain English: cleaning lady comes: you allow her key in the morning
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10ringo10

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Post Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:57 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

All 3 locks cisa astral S - AP3S and RS3S share the same snap protection !
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femurat

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Post Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:03 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

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After playing again with this weird pin I gave up and decided to reassemble the lock without it. I went on and reassembled the lock but left this special pin out. I end up with a 5 active pins dimple lock and was somewhat happy I saved this lock from being tossed away. I was going to put it away when I found in its zip lock bag a strange cup shaped pin. Heck, the missing part of that strange pin appeared immediately when it was no longer needed. I put it together with its other part and it matched perfectly. So I took the lock apart and tried it in the last chamber... it works.
The last chamber is a lot wider than the others. This pin must be pushed up before turning the plug. If pushed up straight and then released, the small tip inside the spring can enter the small hole in the bottom of the cup shaped pin. If I try to rotate the plug without lifting and slowly releasing this pin the pin get's stuck sideways in the wide chamber and it's not possible to rotate the plug.

Cheers :)
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GWiens2001

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Post Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:17 am

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

Creative idea! I like it. Thanks, Femurat.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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femurat

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Post Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:09 pm

Re: cisa antisnap cylinder

Here is an useful post about this lock, made by my friend FrenchKey.

Enjoy :)

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