Brass knuckles anyone?

[Solomon]

Just got home today to find a parcel waiting for me. Oh baby. I've wanted to try out those credit card pick sets for a while now, and came across a set in a plain black case (always thought the james bond visa design was a bit cheesy) so I snapped it up and decided to grab these while I was at it. I was never too interested in 2 finger designs, but I recently found an old plastic one in a box of stuff at my mum's house that I had modified into a 2 finger version years ago, and it made me want one. And that want is now a have.



Is pretty, yes? I'll take some pics of my other ones tomorrow. Anyone else collect these?

[Solomon]

As promised, here's the rest of my collection (if you can call it that).

Before I start though, NONE OF THESE ARE FOR SALE. They are legal to own and keep at home, but buying/selling them is prohibited. Don't ask, cos I don't want to offend anyone by turning them away. I won't tell you where I got them either, so again please don't ask. This thread is for showing off the ones you own, and general discussion. It's not solomon's fucking souk in here.

Another thing I wanna make clear is, whereas I have tried them out on the bag to see what they're like, I would never actually use them on someone. I wouldn't even carry them. But some people seem to have a hard time understanding that people who collect weapons aren't violent sociopaths, so I thought I'd make a point of that.

I'm pretty sure that anyone who has ever bought a set of brass knuckles somewhere, one of the very first things they did was to go and punch some stuff with them on. You can't have a punch bag in the house and not try them out, let's face it.

With that out of the way, it's time for pretty pictures. I'll start with my favourite:



These ones are hand made, and from what I can tell, from actual brass. I've seen the same ones in other peoples collections so they were probably made in bulk, but they're not neat enough to have been factory machined. I like the rustic look to them, gives them a bit more character.

The fit is almost perfect. There's virtually no finger spacing and the palm brace is a bit more pronounced than normal, so they're really nice to use. Only problem with them is they're quite thin, so the palm brace isn't the comfiest. Hence the wrap. Your girl could demolish a building with these things and not break a nail.

My next favourite is this European T-handle design:




This is a fantastic design, very practical and well thought out. The finger holes get progressively smaller, the palm brace is thicker than the main part and it's nicely rounded to cushion impact better. It's also wrapped with a piece of soft leather which adds a bit of extra grip and comfort. Again, virtually no finger spacing and gripping feels very natural.

In my opinion this is the best mass-produced design out there. I have another one in silver which you can see here. Wasn't keen on the way it looked so I removed the leather from the palm brace on this one; they're still very comfortable to use.

These are the more iconic American style:




I love how these look, but they're horrible to use. Whereas the finger holes are slightly oval, they're too wide overall so there is considerable spacing of the pinky finger. To hold these with a natural grip would be very bad news for your pinky. Just to clarify, when I say natural grip I don't mean wearing them like rings over a normal fist. That'll break your fingers. The best way to hold them is to have the knuckles over the second knuckle of each finger like this. Basically as long as the palm brace is sitting tightly and you can put pressure on the pinky without it causing discomfort, you're good to go.

For these ones, holding them in that grip, if a punch were to skim and make contact with just the pinky end, my pinky finger would be on fucking crutches. I have to hold them really tightly with the palm brace higher than normal, right where my fingers meet my palm. It's alright, but the edges are a bit on the sharp side and coupled with the spacing, it's very uncomfortable on the fingers. I can hit the bag as hard as I like with the others, but I wouldn't chance much more than a jab with these. There's just too much stress on the fingers.

The grip feels really unnatural, they dig into your fingers like a motherfucker and they taper in thickness so the palm brace is actually thinner than the striking area too. In my opinion this should be the other way around, like the T-handle versions above. Very cool design, looks great, but unfortunately they're just not practical. If you had gorilla hands they might be ok, or if you're a fan of hammer fists and girl punches they'd also be fine.

These next ones are ABS plastic:




Same deal as before, except the finger holes are circular and they're even wider. If you punched with a natural grip using these, your pinky finger would again be in need of an abulance. If I hold them in the same manner as the previous set though, they're actually ok. They have no taper so they don't hurt the palm as much, but the finger spacing is still pretty uncomfortable. Not as bad though. I have to say, they're surprisingly sturdy and robust. They weigh next to nothing too.

Speaking of plastic, these are the old ones I mentioned in the first post:



These used to be a 4 finger design, not sure why I modified them to be honest cos they were a perfect fit. I'd love to get another set of these but I can't seem to find them anywhere. They're amazingly comfortable, zero finger spacing, and the grip feels perfectly natural. The ".44 mag" design extends the fingers quite a bit because the palm brace is really long... doesn't really matter, but it does make the fist feel a bit "off". These ones don't extend the fingers whatsoever, so the fist feels perfectly natural. You can actually use these with a normal closed fist, with them right over the fingers. But intact as a 4 finger version, you have to hold them the normal way.

Lastly, these big shiny fuckers:




These actually come in 2 sizes, as do many designs, but most sites only carry the large (and don't care to specify this). I held a set of these years ago and they fit perfectly, so of course I wanted to buy a set... and unfortunately I got the larger size. If you can get them in the smaller size, they're amazing, but the large is just ridiculous. They space the fingers out just as much as the big plastic ones, and at the same time they have the issue with the taper, so the palm brace is much thinner than the striking area. Don't buy these unless you have gorilla hands (or you know for a fact you're getting the smaller size). From what I remember, the smaller ones had pretty much zero finger spacing and were super comfortable... although I didn't hit anything with them, I imagine they would've been really nice to use.

That's all for now. I saw a metal version of those ABS plastic ones, which look cool as fuck. I'm tempted to get those next, but it'll probably be a while before I buy any more. Now let's see yours, mofos!

[darkhorse]

Heres mine sol and its caused me way more pain than those of yours.....

[dicey]

@darkhorse: Your reply is priceless mate hahaha

Well... I was attacked with one of these once and I don't like them at all. Even owning one of these is forbidden here in Germany they are on the "blacklist" and you are not allowed to have them not even in a safe. I like it that way because I have seen and felt myself what damage they can do. Sorry guys.

[ARF-GEF]

I'm with Dicey on this one Sol
But since most of us have stuff at home which maybe could be be used for amoral purposes I think it's not too bad
I myself don't own one and not even planning to have one, I'm not sure about their legality here either.
But thanks for the interesting post, I never knew they had ones from ABS plastic too. Isn't it easy to break and the small weight a disadvantage too?

[fgarci03]

@ARF-GEF: I believe ABS plastic isn't easy to break. We don't call ABS plastic by that name in here, so I'm not sure if it is what I think it is.

But being light won't affect it's purpose I think. It wont break unless you use it where yout not supposed to use. Not that I agree with violence, but these things are made to punch another person, so don't punch a wall. On flesh and bone you can't break that plastic.

As for the discussion about agreeing with this or not, I don't have any opinion formed. It's really hard to make up my mind, because yes, this stuff being legal it will be easier for bad guys to get them for malicious intent.

But if illegal, they are also able to get them (a bit more difficult, but easy enough - here in Portugal they are illegal and I know many people who have them). And being illegal, a guy who only wants to defend himself won't be able to do it.

I used to have one of these: http://www.google.pt/imgres?imgurl=http ... Ag&dur=411 when I was 16.
Only used it once. In self-defense against 2 guys. Hit one really hard and the other guy didn't even come to me after that. If I had nothing on me, I would have been beaten hard by them, as they were 2 and they were older than me (I also got to know later, one of them had a small army swiss knife, but didn't got it out - wouldn't serve much against a 50cm baton anyway).
So I believe in self-defense weapons, whatever they are. But that's me, I have a conscience. What about the others? Are they going to have too? Or are they going to beat me with their "legal" weapons? But even having conscience, what gives me the right to carry a weapon if it's illegal? My angelical face?

This is a complex matter.

Image the cops came right when I hit the guy with the baton. And, for this examples sake, the guy had drawned the knife. I would have problems by having an "illegal"" baton (which I used to defend against a knife) and the other guys wouldn't have problems for having a knife (that were going to wound me with it). They would have for mugging and attacking me with it, but not for the possesion of the knife itself, as it's size is small, thus legal. I wouldn't have problems for hitting them with the baton (as it was self-defense), but I would have problems for carrying it. I'm supposing that the whole scenario can be proven in court.

So who has the point here? Me, that carry an illegal weapon to defend myself? Or them, who carry a legal knife to hurt me with it? But if I didn't have the baton, I would get hurt bad, maybe die.
That's why I can't make up my mind in this subject.

Back to the topic. @Sol, that is an impressive colection. One that I really like and I don't see in the images, is one with spikes. I wouldn't beat my worst enemy with it, but I find it really cool for a collection!
Congrats on your collection!

I was attacked with one of these once and I don't like them at all.

Dicey, I'm really sorry you had to go through that. I've seen what they can do to someone with just one puch...


P.S. - Before you ask, NO, I don't carry that batton anymore. You can mug me at will. The only weapon you will find is my fist against your chin!

P.P.S. - Maybe I'll first try to escape






P.P.P.S - Ok, definantly I'll try to escape

[Solomon]

Darkhorse, well played sir.

Dicey, that sucks balls. I hope you're not upset or offended that I find these interesting... people who pick fights really piss me off, it's completely pointless, and to use a weapon on someone who doesn't even want to fight you is the height of cowardice. I have no respect for anyone like that and sincerely hope that whoever did that shit to you gets what's coming to them. I'll defend myself if I really have to, but I'd rather just get out of the situation before it escalates that far. I think that if someone attacks you for no reason and without warning, you have no choice and should do whatever you can to stop them cos you have no idea what they're gonna do to you or who else is gonna join in... but aside from that, violence should be avoided at all costs. It's just not worth it. I don't understand why some people prey on others, it's really sad.

ARF-GEF, the plastic ones are rock solid. I doubt they'd do as much damage as metal, but I certainly wouldn't wanna be hit with them. I was never into spiked ones, the brass ones are only pointed and even those are diabolical.

Carrying a weapon for self defense is a funky legal area, over here you're not allowed to carry anything which is designed specifically for that purpose. If you have to defend yourself and grab something nearby to use as a weapon, it's ok. If you use something you have on your person it's also fine, provided you have a good reason for carrying it at the time and it isn't made/modified specifically to be used as a weapon. If you have something on you like brass knuckles, a kubotan, telescopic baton etc then you will be prosecuted for carrying an offensive weapon because they're for use as weapons and nothing more. But if you carry a torch (flashlight) and use that, you'll get away with it provided you use reasonable force. Same goes for tools you carry for work such as a hammer, screwdriver, wrench etc... providing you're actually at work or on your way between there and your home, anyway.

The way I understand it, in the eyes of the law, if you're carrying something specifically to defend yourself with, then it means you're expecting trouble, and if you're prepared to deal with it then you should be able to just avoid it instead. I do see the logic there, but the law doesn't seem to recognise that there's a difference between self defense and getting into a fight. If you and some guy are in each others faces and get into a fight because you can't be the bigger man and walk away, there is no call for weapons and you should be punished for using one unnecessarily. I agree with that wholeheartedly, regardless of the weapon being opportunistic or not.

If, however, some guy who's much bigger than you just decides to punch you in the face without warning, I believe the use of a weapon is justified. If that guy gets you to the ground, and his friends join in, you're pretty much helpless unless you're very well trained (and/or lucky). Worst case scenario, you could actually be killed. I've seen one friend sucker punched and dump tackled to the ground by a guy twice his size, he had his shoulder dislocated and couldn't fight back... if there was nobody around to control the guy in that situation, it could've ended really badly. My friend dodged the punch and could've defended himself or even ran away, but he just froze up and went into panic mode. An important thing I learned that day is that it's not in your best interest to try and reason with a guy who is amped up and already swinging. My point is, most peoples natural reaction to someone getting in their face isn't to reach for a weapon and go apeshit. But the law doesn't put that level of trust in people. If you carry a weapon, you're either up to no good or you should know better. On the one hand I agree, you should avoid getting physical at all costs... but not everything can be avoided, and I believe you should be allowed to carry a weapon for those SHTF situations.

The law doesn't seem to acknowledge that some time you could be in a situation where you're caught completely off guard, you won't know how to act, you can't run away and the only choice you have is to hit back... and if you can't punch worth a shit, you're done for. You can't rely on there being something you can use within arms reach. In my opinion, weapons should be legal for self defense but you should be prosecuted if you use them unnecessarily. For example if you start a fight and use a weapon, that's assault with an offensive weapon... but if you don't want to fight, and someone just headbutts you out of nowhere and you go into a clinch, you're well within your rights to whip out a kubotan and smash him over the head with it for fear of him taking you to the ground and stomping your face in. Although if you both WANT to fight, it doesn't mean that whoever throws the first punch is giving the ok for the other to draw a weapon. A fight is a fight, and can be avoided. I hope I'm making sense here.

There are things you can carry which have legitimate uses and also make great self defense weapons, but I don't think it's fair to prosecute someone for using the likes of a kubotan to hit an assailant a few times in order to stun them and give themselves a window to escape. Just because something is made specifically for self defense it doesn't mean you're planning to assault someone with it. I know there are a lot of assholes out there who would assault someone with a weapon, but those people are ALREADY carrying them and don't care about the laws.

Oh look, I've derailed my own thread now. Heh.

[GWiens2001]

P.P.S. - Maybe I'll first try to escape


P.P.P.S - Ok, definantly I'll try to escape

Spoken like a man of true wisdom. The best way to avoid a punch is to not be there.

Won't go into approval of usage or not. Wanted to say that it is a very nice collection, Soloman.

Gordon

[dicey]

No offense taken mate so don't worry!

There is only one problem mate... If you make it legal there WILL be bad people misusing it. Have you ever been hit by one of those? (The Knuckles)
Trust me, it is NOT fun at all. Do you need them to defend yourself? No you do not. There are other ways to defend yourself and if you are not familiar with them you can always learn them. I carry a pen with me all the time. Comes in handy as I give a lot a tutoring lessons and will help you out in awkward situation. Fact given that you can handle it the right way.

[ARF-GEF]

I don't really want to include myself in the good or bad debate. All I'm saying is that I'm glad they are not too easily accessible here.
I can imagine they do bad damage to anyone...

Anyway I agree wit hthose ones who pot for runnign away. That's the best way to defend. I1ve always been thought that try to raun away.

[Solomon]

No offense taken mate so don't worry!

There is only one problem mate... If you make it legal there WILL be bad people misusing it. Have you ever been hit by one of those? (The Knuckles)
Trust me, it is NOT fun at all. Do you need them to defend yourself? No you do not. There are other ways to defend yourself and if you are not familiar with them you can always learn them. I carry a pen with me all the time. Comes in handy as I give a lot a tutoring lessons and will help you out in awkward situation. Fact given that you can handle it the right way.

I don't need them to defend myself, that's not what this thread is about. It just kinda went that way lol. I just think they're cool, so I collect them. That's it. I'd never carry them, there are far better choices for self defense which won't land you an automatic jail sentence. These things are overkill, and I acknowledge that.

I wasn't saying anyone should carry these for self defense, not at all. I was talking about weapons in general. These things are a poor choice, for a multitude of reasons. You have a point in that if they were legal, yes, they'd be easier to get - but they're not exactly hard to get as it is. If I can get them, criminals can too. If you could buy them legally, it wouldn't be easier for bad people, it'd be easier for ALL people. The implications of that are up to you, but I personally don't think it'd cause an epidemic or anything. Bad people can get them easily regardless, you have to admit that. So it wouldn't really change anything. And for the discerning criminal who can't get his hands on some, all he has to do is go to the hardware store. Have you seen the weapon potential in those places? There are far scarier and more dangerous things on those shelves.

Brass knuckles actually are legal in france, brazil and sweden... you can buy them at market stalls, but it's illegal to actually carry them for self defense. Kind of like knives in the UK, you can't carry anything with a locking blade over 3" but you can walk into any knife shop and buy a hunting knife, combat knife or a machete no questions asked. An argument can be made that those actually do serve as tools, but how many people who buy huge knives do you think use them for their intended purpose - and how many carry them for self defense? The answer in either case is not many; most people who buy them just think they're cool things to have.

Unlike aforementioned knives though, brass knuckles on the other hand are made for damaging people and nothing else. They have no practical purpose (unless you count the "novelty meat tenderiser"). Despite that, they are still freely sold in those places and I'm sure there are a lot of bad people who buy them. It'd actually be interesting to see crime statistics where brass knuckles were used in those countries compared to places where sale is prohibited. I've read plenty of stories of them being used in the US, and they're illegal in almost all states there.

If somebody wants to use a weapon on someone, they are limited only by their imagination. The law doesn't stop people from getting things like this, it just makes it easier to prosecute anyone who gets caught carrying them. And the law certainly doesn't stop someone from using something equally nasty to hurt people with, which can be bought 5 minutes away from home. I'm not campaigning to have the sale of brass knuckles legalised or some shit here, I'm just saying. They're not hard to get and if they were legal I honestly don't think it'd cause much of a problem besides people carrying them to look cool and getting themselves arrested for being dumbshits.

Just to reiterate, I don't want these for self defense and I'm not recommending that anyone else considers them as an option. I avoid bad situations like the fucking plague and if need be I can defend myself just fine with what I was born with. You don't need to tell me they're bad, I know they are. I understand you don't like them, and for good reason, but I'm not one of the bad guys. You know that, right?

[dicey]

Everything cool here Solomon so don't worry mate

Well here where I am (near Frankfurt) it is not so easy to get them... I like your Brass Knuckles and I can understand why you like collecting them

[Solomon]

I'm sure you could make some with a bit of that renowned German engineering!

I've seen some amazing home machined ones, notably this guy. I'm actually gonna have a go at making my own set soon, the plan is to make some out of plastic first to see how that works out then look into getting some billets of aluminium or something. God help my neighbours.

[dicey]

Damn!

For all that stuff he would go to prison here
And mate... why the hell are you not responding in the chat?

[rai]

I think that the original brass knuckles were cut off handles from WWI trench knifes.