1900's Diebold Vault in Lowell MA

[Andy]

Hello All,

I joined this site because I found a thread with pictures of an S&G lock offset, similar to what I think I need to rebuild a Diebold vault door that is inside the loft/condo I'm about to buy. The previous owners removed the offsets in order to prevent somebody from getting locked inside the vault. Me, being a mechanical engineer, obviously need to get this thing working again. I mean, what good is a 1900's vault door that doesn't lock, right?!

I'm hoping that somebody might be able to provide a little guidance on where to search for new/original replacement parts that would allow me to get this operational again.

Cheers,

Andy

Note, if the links to my pictures don't work, let me know.

http://imgur.com/Q2ZmTGV
http://imgur.com/09Glu3a
http://imgur.com/GUgKru7
http://imgur.com/EXQCbet

[Squelchtone]

hmmm.. I think by offset you mean indirect drive, that's what that style mechanism is called. Hello from Springfield, MA by the way. so hey.. better talk to the previous owners and ask them where the hell the safe locks are that they removed, because you're not and I repeat, you're not ever in hell gonna find replacements for 100 year old locks. They didn't remove the offsets as you call them, it appears they straight up removed the safe locks from the door leaving only the base plates where the dial gear is mounted to. Are the locks anywhere in the safe/vault/room near by? It's not something one would just throw out.

It's just not something a locksmith is gonna have sitting on the shelf, there is no new parts or original parts sitting on a shelf anywhere other than museum pieces on ebay. Luckily, the oldest safe/locksmith in the US is in Boston, so you could go to Brighton, and bring your photos to Boston Safe & Lock http://www.bostonlockandsafe.net/ (love their 90's site) and hope they might have some spare parts, they may sell you each lock for $250-$500 dollars. Otherwise they could maybe put in a modern day indirect drive S&G vault lock that might fit the mounting pattern of the old one, but to me it wouldn't feel right putting a modern lock on an antique door. What does is say on the dials on you door? is it Diebold or Sargent & Greenleaf? is the inside door that has the 2 dials on it also missing both lock mechanisms?

tl:dr unless you find the removed parts kicking around your condo in the safe, or somewhere near by, you probably will never find the correct parts to make that safe door work properly again.

Squelchtone

[Andy]

Good morning Springfield!

Thanks for the input. The two movement time locks have "Diebold Save & Lock Company Canton Ohio" written on the dials.

The previous owners moved out a long time ago, and the building has been abandoned for years. Finding the original locks would be great, but not likely at all.

What I thought was possible, was to find a matching lock set by S&G, which I believe starting making locks for Diebold at some point in time. It would feel wrong to put a modern lock in a vault like this, but it would make it a functional door.

Trying to get back to this sites core interest, is there any way to figure out the combination of the inner door, which is a two dial combo that is still functional? The door is open, but the locks are active. There is a wedge put in to prevent somebody from shutting the door and a sign stating that it is not to be shut. Next time I'm in the unit, I'll take some pictures of the rear of the door. Were these old locks designed to have their combinations reset somehow?

[00247]

Never say never.

While it will be a challenge, once you know what you are searching for, things do turn up. I would follow up on that lead Squelchtone gave you and network any contacts they may give you. I will also private message you some contact information.

I bought a 1915 Mosler screw door bank safe that was missing the time lock and all inner hardware for the locking mechanism. It was cheap so I bought it never expecting to make the time lock functional. Low and behold a parts safe turned up on Ebay and I got everything I needed and more in one place.

I also needed two time locks and a special bolt for another 1891 Mosler. All have been found in three different states. It took a while but just like a woman...
the chase is the best part.

[Riyame]

Good morning Springfield!

Thanks for the input. The two movement time locks have "Diebold Save & Lock Company Canton Ohio" written on the dials.

The previous owners moved out a long time ago, and the building has been abandoned for years. Finding the original locks would be great, but not likely at all.

What I thought was possible, was to find a matching lock set by S&G, which I believe starting making locks for Diebold at some point in time. It would feel wrong to put a modern lock in a vault like this, but it would make it a functional door.

Trying to get back to this sites core interest, is there any way to figure out the combination of the inner door, which is a two dial combo that is still functional? The door is open, but the locks are active. There is a wedge put in to prevent somebody from shutting the door and a sign stating that it is not to be shut. Next time I'm in the unit, I'll take some pictures of the rear of the door. Were these old locks designed to have their combinations reset somehow?

Depending on the lock resetting the combination could be as simple as taking out a screw and doing changing the wheel positions. Or it could involve the back covers being locked into place until the correct combination is input which is a much bigger problem.

If they are key change you would need to get a correct change key for them. If you take pictures of them we can advise you on how to proceed. Either way the most likely answer is to phone up a Safe Tech from here http://www.savta.org/savta_tech.php as they would likely have the knowledge or have access to it to properly take apart and service your locks so they are in full working condition and properly change the combinations.

[Andy]

Thanks for all your help so far. In regards to resetting the locks for the inner door, take a look at these new pictures I took on Friday. It appears that they removed the latch from the wall where the door would lock to (sorry no pic of that), so there is no way the door can stay shut even if the locks work.

I also can't tell if this door used to have deadbolts in it or not. There appears to be some framework in the door for them, but I don't see any holes in the vault wall that would receive the bolts. It's also dark in the unit since there is no power and i'm using a flashlight and my phone for these pics...

http://imgur.com/B3nvS8t
http://imgur.com/tYLXpnf
http://imgur.com/kyknQ0F

Cheers,

Andy

[Riyame]

Yes, there used to be boltwork in that door and it is all gone. It will all have to be custom made to get that door up and running again.

[MHM]

Gorgeous though that old hardware is, it seems to me that at some stage someone went to quite a lot of trouble to decommission that vault. Honestly? I'd try to re-purpose it somehow, but I wouldn't try to restore it.

Michael.

Edited to add: I'm deeply envious, I'd love to own a building with a massive antique vault...