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If I owned a Handgun

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DennisK

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Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:32 pm

Location: S. Illinois

Post Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: If I owned a Handgun

PoopDogofDefeat wrote:Well if you don't have one already, get ready to wait 3 years. Supposedly that's how long the backorder is. Personally I will not buy one for the sole fact that it only costs Glock $70 to produce 1 unit. And I don't feel up to paying +400% the input cost.

Huh? Wait 3 years? I got 4 Glocks in different calibers and just went in the gun shop and bought them.No shortage here.
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squirrelcop

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Post Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:20 am

Re: If I owned a Handgun

DennisK wrote:
squirrelcop wrote:
verz wrote:I have nothing against glocks but they are just so Block, square, plastic. i like a gun with curves and a nice feel in the hand Beretta or 1911.


I know what you mean. A Glock 22 is my workhorse, it is IMHO the ideal LE handgun, but it lacks style. My off duty gun is a black 1911 with redwood grips and matte stainless hammer, mag-release, slide lock and safety. Its like driving a delivery truck all day at work, and coming home to drive a corvette.

Style? When carrying for self defense,do you want something "pretty" or something that goes bang everytime and is almost boringly accurate?


well, since you asked... My 1911 has yet to fail to go bang. The single action trigger is crisp and fast. It, and it's .45 cal cartridge have 100 years of historical credibility to back them up. The fact that its bad-ass and pimp are more a case of having my cake and eating it too. :D The Glock is a fine, fine gun though. Its lack of manual safeties, high magazine capacity, and utter reliability make it the ideal LE duty weapon. I trust it to fall out of an airplane http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P65BzUnNr04 and still fire. But, as I said...its a workhorse. I disagree with you though, in implying that the Glock trumps any other weapon system. Putting hits on target in a shoot-out is the result of many, many hours of training with quality instructors and ingrained muscle memory. Much more so than having an "accurate handgun". Most modern handguns will put rounds in the center of mass at reasonable distances. The debate is like arguing whether apples or oranges are more delicious. Every gun has their advantages and disadvantages. Honestly though...:wgaf: because both sides of the argument are valid. I own a quality 1911 that happens to be awesome looking. I trust it to fire when I need it to and I trust myself to score hits when I need to. I make these statements based on 8 years as a full time police officer with, literally, hundreds of hours spent on various shooting ranges,basic SWAT school, NRA firearms instructor school (handgun and shotgun).
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mdc5150

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Post Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:02 am

Re: If I owned a Handgun

DennisK wrote:
And to stay away from a 9mm if they are using it for home defense. If you are using a 9mm for home defense you will empty the gun into the intruder and then have to beat them to death with the empty gun.


mdchurchill,this may have been the case years ago,but bullet design has advance significantly since those days.Today's design will reliably expand to atleast 150% of rated diameter because the velocities have increased.And besides,you could have a cannon for home defense and it wouldn't do you any good if you can't hit what you're aiming at.


I agree accuracy is important, and an accurate .45 is much better than any 9mm in my opinion.
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DennisK

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Post Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: If I owned a Handgun

squirrelcop wrote:
DennisK wrote:
squirrelcop wrote:
verz wrote:I have nothing against glocks but they are just so Block, square, plastic. i like a gun with curves and a nice feel in the hand Beretta or 1911.


I know what you mean. A Glock 22 is my workhorse, it is IMHO the ideal LE handgun, but it lacks style. My off duty gun is a black 1911 with redwood grips and matte stainless hammer, mag-release, slide lock and safety. Its like driving a delivery truck all day at work, and coming home to drive a corvette.

Style? When carrying for self defense,do you want something "pretty" or something that goes bang everytime and is almost boringly accurate?


well, since you asked... My 1911 has yet to fail to go bang. The single action trigger is crisp and fast. It, and it's .45 cal cartridge have 100 years of historical credibility to back them up. The fact that its bad-ass and pimp are more a case of having my cake and eating it too. :D The Glock is a fine, fine gun though. Its lack of manual safeties, high magazine capacity, and utter reliability make it the ideal LE duty weapon. I trust it to fall out of an airplane http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P65BzUnNr04 and still fire. But, as I said...its a workhorse. I disagree with you though, in implying that the Glock trumps any other weapon system. Putting hits on target in a shoot-out is the result of many, many hours of training with quality instructors and ingrained muscle memory. Much more so than having an "accurate handgun". Most modern handguns will put rounds in the center of mass at reasonable distances. The debate is like arguing whether apples or oranges are more delicious. Every gun has their advantages and disadvantages. Honestly though...:wgaf: because both sides of the argument are valid. I own a quality 1911 that happens to be awesome looking. I trust it to fire when I need it to and I trust myself to score hits when I need to. I make these statements based on 8 years as a full time police officer with, literally, hundreds of hours spent on various shooting ranges,basic SWAT school, NRA firearms instructor school (handgun and shotgun).

I agree with MOST of what you have stated here.And don't get me wrong,I do love the 1911; I must because I own a few :drool: ,and I was talking about the .45 ACP round as I have a Glock 30SF. BUT,and I know you will counter with "training", there is that external safety you have to manipulate and hope your muscle memory remembers it in a L&D situation. Unless of course you don't carry with one in the chamber.This to me would be suicide. Also,can you count on only needing 7 or 8 rounds? I'd rather have the 13+1 ability of my G30SF.
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DennisK

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Post Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:50 pm

Re: If I owned a Handgun

mdchurchill wrote:
DennisK wrote:
And to stay away from a 9mm if they are using it for home defense. If you are using a 9mm for home defense you will empty the gun into the intruder and then have to beat them to death with the empty gun.


mdchurchill,this may have been the case years ago,but bullet design has advance significantly since those days.Today's design will reliably expand to atleast 150% of rated diameter because the velocities have increased.And besides,you could have a cannon for home defense and it wouldn't do you any good if you can't hit what you're aiming at.


I agree accuracy is important, and an accurate .45 is much better than any 9mm in my opinion.

Ok,I'll give you that.But,have you thought of the technique of getting your sights back on target for follow-up shots? I would rather have 2 9mm hits to center mass than 1 .45. I guarantee that MOST people will be faster and more accurate with a 9mm over a .45. This is because MOST people don't put in enough time practicing.I say that because nearly all of the top shooters shoot .45,BUT they spend the time and many,many rounds fired.The average person isn't that dedicated.
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madhatter

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Location: England

Post Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:54 pm

Re: If I owned a Handgun

I miss my 1911 [and my other wheel guns] when our kind government took them from us.
If I was in a country that allowed me to carry, I would pick the 1911, pure stopping power.....and a very nice gun. :drool:
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rerun12

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Post Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:13 pm

Re: If I owned a Handgun

Springfield XDM's ftw :armed:
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.
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squirrelcop

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Post Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:59 am

Re: If I owned a Handgun

DennisK wrote:
squirrelcop wrote:
DennisK wrote:
squirrelcop wrote:
verz wrote:I have nothing against glocks but they are just so Block, square, plastic. i like a gun with curves and a nice feel in the hand Beretta or 1911.


I know what you mean. A Glock 22 is my workhorse, it is IMHO the ideal LE handgun, but it lacks style. My off duty gun is a black 1911 with redwood grips and matte stainless hammer, mag-release, slide lock and safety. Its like driving a delivery truck all day at work, and coming home to drive a corvette.

Style? When carrying for self defense,do you want something "pretty" or something that goes bang everytime and is almost boringly accurate?


well, since you asked... My 1911 has yet to fail to go bang. The single action trigger is crisp and fast. It, and it's .45 cal cartridge have 100 years of historical credibility to back them up. The fact that its bad-ass and pimp are more a case of having my cake and eating it too. :D The Glock is a fine, fine gun though. Its lack of manual safeties, high magazine capacity, and utter reliability make it the ideal LE duty weapon. I trust it to fall out of an airplane http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P65BzUnNr04 and still fire. But, as I said...its a workhorse. I disagree with you though, in implying that the Glock trumps any other weapon system. Putting hits on target in a shoot-out is the result of many, many hours of training with quality instructors and ingrained muscle memory. Much more so than having an "accurate handgun". Most modern handguns will put rounds in the center of mass at reasonable distances. The debate is like arguing whether apples or oranges are more delicious. Every gun has their advantages and disadvantages. Honestly though...:wgaf: because both sides of the argument are valid. I own a quality 1911 that happens to be awesome looking. I trust it to fire when I need it to and I trust myself to score hits when I need to. I make these statements based on 8 years as a full time police officer with, literally, hundreds of hours spent on various shooting ranges,basic SWAT school, NRA firearms instructor school (handgun and shotgun).

I agree with MOST of what you have stated here.And don't get me wrong,I do love the 1911; I must because I own a few :drool: ,and I was talking about the .45 ACP round as I have a Glock 30SF. BUT,and I know you will counter with "training", there is that external safety you have to manipulate and hope your muscle memory remembers it in a L&D situation. Unless of course you don't carry with one in the chamber.This to me would be suicide. Also,can you count on only needing 7 or 8 rounds? I'd rather have the 13+1 ability of my G30SF.



Believe it or not, I went through the police academy with a few ex-military guys who, I shit you not, carried their Glock 22's with an empty chamber, because their experience was to draw, rack, aim and fire. D:
I also agree with you, I am making a tactical faux-pas in carrying a different weapon system off duty. (I carry with one in the chamber,7 +1, 8 rd mag, safety on.) I might be screwed if I forget to take off the safety in a shoot-out. As for the 8 rds being enough? Hopefully... but 8 rounds seems like a lot, since I am a wheel-gun man too. (what can I say, I love the classics) I just refinished my S & W 19-4 in Cerakote flat black and it is titties. I sometimes carry that one too, when I have 12 layers of clothing on to conceal it :) I think we are pretty much on the same page about things here Dennis. :agree:
Maintain Right
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DennisK

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Post Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:49 pm

Re: If I owned a Handgun

(Mod Power)
squirrelcop wrote:
DennisK wrote:
squirrelcop wrote:
DennisK wrote:
squirrelcop wrote:
verz wrote:I have nothing against glocks but they are just so Block, square, plastic. i like a gun with curves and a nice feel in the hand Beretta or 1911.


I know what you mean. A Glock 22 is my workhorse, it is IMHO the ideal LE handgun, but it lacks style. My off duty gun is a black 1911 with redwood grips and matte stainless hammer, mag-release, slide lock and safety. Its like driving a delivery truck all day at work, and coming home to drive a corvette.

Style? When carrying for self defense,do you want something "pretty" or something that goes bang everytime and is almost boringly accurate?


well, since you asked... My 1911 has yet to fail to go bang. The single action trigger is crisp and fast. It, and it's .45 cal cartridge have 100 years of historical credibility to back them up. The fact that its bad-ass and pimp are more a case of having my cake and eating it too. :D The Glock is a fine, fine gun though. Its lack of manual safeties, high magazine capacity, and utter reliability make it the ideal LE duty weapon. I trust it to fall out of an airplane http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P65BzUnNr04 and still fire. But, as I said...its a workhorse. I disagree with you though, in implying that the Glock trumps any other weapon system. Putting hits on target in a shoot-out is the result of many, many hours of training with quality instructors and ingrained muscle memory. Much more so than having an "accurate handgun". Most modern handguns will put rounds in the center of mass at reasonable distances. The debate is like arguing whether apples or oranges are more delicious. Every gun has their advantages and disadvantages. Honestly though...:wgaf: because both sides of the argument are valid. I own a quality 1911 that happens to be awesome looking. I trust it to fire when I need it to and I trust myself to score hits when I need to. I make these statements based on 8 years as a full time police officer with, literally, hundreds of hours spent on various shooting ranges,basic SWAT school, NRA firearms instructor school (handgun and shotgun).

I agree with MOST of what you have stated here.And don't get me wrong,I do love the 1911; I must because I own a few :drool: ,and I was talking about the .45 ACP round as I have a Glock 30SF. BUT,and I know you will counter with "training", there is that external safety you have to manipulate and hope your muscle memory remembers it in a L&D situation. Unless of course you don't carry with one in the chamber.This to me would be suicide. Also,can you count on only needing 7 or 8 rounds? I'd rather have the 13+1 ability of my G30SF.



Believe it or not, I went through the police academy with a few ex-military guys who, I shit you not, carried their Glock 22's with an empty chamber, because their experience was to draw, rack, aim and fire. D:
I also agree with you, I am making a tactical faux-pas in carrying a different weapon system off duty. (I carry with one in the chamber,7 +1, 8 rd mag, safety on.) I might be screwed if I forget to take off the safety in a shoot-out. As for the 8 rds being enough? Hopefully... but 8 rounds seems like a lot, since I am a wheel-gun man too. (what can I say, I love the classics) I just refinished my S & W 19-4 in Cerakote flat black and it is titties. I sometimes carry that one too, when I have 12 layers of clothing on to conceal it :) I think we are pretty much on the same page about things here Dennis. :agree:

Yes we're on the same page, and believe me, I know what you mean by owning a firearm that is aesthetically pleasing to you. And I do think 1911s are the sexiest pistol ever made.... I've owned several. But for me, it's not a weapon I want to carry. I don't want to have to remember to manipulate it in some way when tenths of seconds count. I just want to be able to pull it, aim and fire; kinda like your wheel gun. :)
As for training, when I took the NRA Basic pistol course, my instructor related a story of 3 cops in California who were killed in a shoot out. Their mistake? (This was when cops carried revolvers.)
They had trained on the range to dump their empties into their weak hand and place them in a bag around their waist so as not to have to bend over to pick up empties. Guess what? All 3 of the dead officers were found with empty hulls in their weak hand. Like the saying goes, you'll perform like you train.
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