Bump key, TrioVing "upside down" tumbler.

[jegernoen]

Hi there, i finaly got a machine made bumpkey, but i have ran into a litle problem that i did not find an good straight out answer for via google.
I live in a country where our locks/cylinders are installed "upside down", like this:


Now all the movies iv seen on youtube, show the locks beeing the other way. Also, when insterting the key, the "teeth" are upwards.
After googling for a while, i came over loads of sites but rather few straightup answers to my question. The last page i found was this one, and also here there was a tread, but i think it was more about picking, and not that much the use of a bumpkey.

But then again, im sorry if this have been discussed before, but the question is: is it possible to bump a lock like this with a bumpkey?
One of the other sites i found, said that one should turn the locks upside down (like mine), to prevent people from bumping it, but there where no users who commented to that proposal, so im still unsure.

[Riff]

I've bumped both ways. Buy you a lock, turn it upside down, and bump it.

[jegernoen]

I could remove the lock from the door, and turn it the other way, but learning to bump when it is opposite from the picture, will not help since most doors i run into are the way this one is.
So you are confirming that it should be able to bump a lock with this direction, compared to the direction the locks are in, on all the videos i have seen on youtube?
Did you find it harder, to bump a lock this way, then the other way?

Thank you for your quick reply

[Riff]

I dont do alot of bumping anymore. I learned to bump way before I learned to pick locks. The challenge of picking is much more fun than bumping. Once I learned to pick, I havent picked up my bumpkeys since. My point is I cant tell you for sure if it's easier to bump with the lock rightside up rather than upside down but for sure it is possible. I didnt bump that long to be able to tell you that. But you can bump it when it's upside down. I have a lock that is mounted sideways on my front door. Like the one in the picture. It's kinda awkward to bump but I'm bumped it lots of times. Also, if you are new to bumping I dont suggest you bump your front door. I learned this the hard way. Before I knew what I was really doing I ruined my front door lock! I was making my own bump keys though. That probably had something to do with ruining the lock. Buy you a pickset!! Picking is so much funner than bumping. Bumping although fun at the start gets very boring real quick. There really isint much of a challenge there. Also, if you learn to pick you will be able to rake a lock much quicker than you can bump it in most cases. Good luck.

[the lockpickkid]

Just to add on what Riff said, you should also get a better understanding of how locks work, take them apart and put them back together, you may bump a lock that is in use that you really need to work and it will fall apart, you need to know how to put it back together. Get some picks, and practice picking some padlocks, it's way more rewarding.

[jegernoen]

I see now after visiting the frontpage, that this topic might have ended up in the wrong department. Im sorry for that.
If you guys have any experience with TrioVing locks, supposebly 9pins, do you have any recomandations for some affordable lockpicking tools?

I was in on UKLockpickers, but they seem to have loads of tools there, and me beeing brand new to the game have no knowledge of what i need, and dont need, and what tools are good or bad.
And; is there any different tools needed for picking "upside down" locks like mine, compared to the other way?

Regarding the bumping:
Offcourse i bump the door when it is opened, so i dont ruin the lock with me on the outside, I guess i could remove it from the door and open it like proposed, but il have to take a look at that.
I keep hitting my finger when trying to bump:p

Edit:
Im sorry, i dont know how many pins the locks are. I claimed it was 9pins, but im unsure. While looking at my bumpkey, i find six (6) ridges going down into the key, and six-seven (6-7) depending on how you count, ridges poking up. It is a standard type of lock for househoulds in scandinavia.

[Solomon]

Doesn't matter if the pins are at the bottom of the keyway, bumping relies on the transference of impact energy... gravity has nothing to do with it.

And no, you don't need diferent tools to pick locks which have pins on the bottom. The feedback from the pins is a little different, but it makes no odds when it comes to how you actually pick them. I used to think that because the pins were at the bottom it meant that they'd overset more (and more easily), but that was because I didn't understand the binding defect properly. If you're not 100% on tolerance errors and what binding is, do some reading... you'll thank yourself for taking the time, trust me.

The only difference between locks with pins at the top and those with pins at the bottom is the feedback. Pins at the bottom will feel solid when set, pins at the top will feel exactly the same except you'll be able to push the key pins up slightly before you hit that stop. It's a pretty universal formula when it comes to pin tumblers... if a pin feels springy then it's not set, if it feels solid then it is.

Of course if they all feel solid and the plug isn't rotating, you have security pins and need to check each one until they're set correctly... that being said, false sets are very easily detected unless you're dealing with serrated pins which have shallow grooves.

It's also worth throwing in that if they're all springy and won't seem to set, then you've more than likely overset one of the pins, preventing the next pin from binding. It's a good idea to count the pins as you lift them, that way if you have a solid pin and 4 springy ones you know you've overset one. Another reason for pins not setting is that you're using too little tension, but as a beginner this is very unlikely since newbies generally use way too much. I know I did.

Hope this helps mate, I kinda went on a ramble there. Too early in the morning for me, I think.

Oh yeah, before I forget... you need to count the valleys on the key to see how many pins there are, it's hard to explain without a pic so if you're unsure what we mean by valleys you could stick a pick in there and push them all down, remove it slowly and count the clicks. Never fails!

[jegernoen]

Here is a couple pictures of the bumpkey i got right now, im sorry but i could not get a good picture.

IMG_1205.JPG

IMG_1208.JPG

Thank you for the info Solomon
Do you happen to know of any sets that would be usable for my purpose? There are so many sets out there, it is quite easy to get lost.
I also understand that european locks are a bit thinner/smaller then US locks, so a few people have complained about a coulpe sets cuz the parts where to "big", but i still did not find a good recomandation for what a set that would work.

[Solomon]

Jegernoen, I'm assuming you live in the netherlands... not sure what locks they use there other than the obvious. ASSA is a big one, but those have at least a dozen different profiles so those aren't the best locks to be considering bumping - unless there is a specific profile which is very common, but I don't know much about them.

I've heard of trioving and nemef aswell, and I'm pretty sure they use cisa there too. Again, not sure how many profiles they use or if they're all the same or what. Just get some locks, take one of the keys and modify it. Pretty soon you'll have a nice little selection going although in all honesty you'll not use them much.

[morrowind107]

you can pick the trioving with a normal pickset. i have been using southord and majestics picks and they work fine. btw, the trioving locks are quite hard to pick, and if you have just started picking, these locks are way to hard

[HallisChalmers]

Do you happen to know of any sets that would be usable for my purpose? There are so many sets out there, it is quite easy to get lost.

Jegernoen, if you are on a tight budget, get one of these basic kits:

http://www.uklockpickers.co.uk/oscommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=15&products_id=110&osCsid=lg2fhpst2dje6envb1oano15q7

It's a decent set, but keep in mind you'll probably break a pick now and then. It happens to all of us starting out. The picks that will probably get the most use will be the short hook and half-diamond.

Don't spend a lot of money starting out. And try making some of your own picks out of old scrap pieces of steel (butter knives, hacksaw blades, windshield wiper inserts, etc.) BTW, thee tension wrenches in these kits are ok, but you can count on having to make some of your own "custom" tension wrenches to address particular locks.

As you progress in your picking skills, you'll soon learn that you will employ only one or two favorite picks - but you'll end up using a large assortment of tension wrenches in various lengths, angles, depths, etc.

Once you have a good grip on the basics of picking, you can then look to upgrading your kit bag. The GOSO kit will do in the intermediate phase of your learning cycle. http://www.uklockpickers.co.uk/oscommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=15&products_id=62&osCsid=lg2fhpst2dje6envb1oano15q7

After that period, then start looking at more professional kits. http://www.peterson-international.com/picksets.html

http://www.lockpickersmall.com/pick-sets.html

Peterson's and HPC tools are some of the better pro-tools out there.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!