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Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 6:41 am
by MrWizard
Well I would buy the pens and stickers.
A pin would be great as well.
A T-shirt would be cool too.

But if you are serious and don't have a police record long as your arm and want to get respect from a locksmith and police in the USA anyway join Associated Locksmiths Of America. Pay the yearly dues get the monthly magazine, membership card, window stickers and an actual bonded status. And take classes to get real certification by taking the required tests if you would like to go that far. This will remove all concerns you have picks in your pocket or worry about asking another locksmith about locks or need to order lock related stuff from them. I have been a member since 1978 and proud to be one.

Richard

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:28 am
by ARF-GEF
I would defo but the sticker and the pen too. As MrA, primarily to support kp.com. I have pens already and I have no idea where should I stick the sticker :)
I would still prefer the lapel pins.

About the T-shirt: I'm with Xeo on that: I wouldn't want most people to know that I play with locks. Most of them would completely misinterpret it. I have seen quite few occasions where people "couldn't handle the truth" about locks being pickable and lock-picking as a hobby/sport in general. :D

PS.: Cool pics Oldfast! :)

(Sargent is owned by Assa abloy too now? :shock: )

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:33 am
by GWiens2001
I like the t-shirt idea, because the one that was bandied about here was subtle. However, I only wear it to the hackerspace here in town. If I ever go to a lock or security convention, I would wear it then, too.

Gordon

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:51 am
by ARF-GEF
I just checked ALOA. I am not in the US so here are the costs: 200$ application fee plus 225$ each year. That together is around my monthly allowance (I'm a student), around 1/15 of my yearly "income". I think 425$ is very very expensive.
I know prices and incomes are different in the US. Maybe 425$ is a small sum for Americans but it is big money here.
I'm aware that it's totally different for professionals but for a hobbyist 425$ is not really worth it. At least that's my opinion.I know people in the US pay less, maybe that's worth it. I also know this is not aimed at hobbyist.
As I see it most of the benefits which ALOA offers are totally lost to international patrons (limited by geography) so if something they should get their for less instead of more.
All I'm saying is for a hobbyist in my opinion that is an very high sum.
Plus I would need to enlist in a n ALOA course in order to get the student membership. Which, unless it's an E-course, I obviously cannot attend. And and a non US citizen I would gain nothing apart from a few magazines.
I'm part of a medical professional association. It cost me ~40$ a year. No registration costs and I get a magazine every 2 months.
As a person from "overseas" I'm not sure how would I gain from an ALOA membership and why would it cost me 10x as much as my actual professional association.

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:58 pm
by kilby
As I don't live in the US the American association would be no use to me whatsoever.

The way I managed to make friends with a local lockie was to just say that I collected locks (my Dad gad a great collection of late 19 and early 20th century ones) and discussed the old ones that they had on display (I still want their Bramah collection) and buying a couple of old models that they had cluttering up their store room.

After that the conversation turned to old padlocks without keys and what did I do about about it and I simply replied that I opened them myself and in the case of real old ones made my own keys. Once they realised that it was actual locks that fascinated me I have ended up with a lot of old interesting locks very cheap and a lot of modern ones that they have in their scrap boxes.

I work in the IT field with an emphasis on secure systems and if somebody turned up with an ID card or lapel badge from a web sire I would be especially wary if they asked particular questions UNLESS it was a website which I actually frequented a lot.

Something like toool where people actually meet and some members are involved with the lock companies would be a better model if you want to be recognised by 'professionals'

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 7:43 pm
by Logan
MrAnybody wrote:
GWiens2001 wrote:A few months ago, somebody posted the possibility of a T-shirt with a line drawing of a turned plug and the words "Ethics>Security". If that shirt came out, I'd buy it. Most people would have no idea what the line drawing was, let alone the words. The posts at the time seemed positive. Our ethics are greater than your security. Very important to live by that motto. Keep your ethics high, because security can be compromised. We could open that lock, but we won't, because it would be wrong to do so.

Gordon


Yep,I'd buy that too. Purely to support KP.com. I like the ethics and security suggestion too.


I would also buy that shirt.

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 7:53 pm
by mdc5150
kilby wrote:As I don't live in the US the American association would be no use to me whatsoever.



I'm in the U.S. and I'm still trying to figure out what use it would be for me. They have classes but you have to go to Texas to take them and they are extremely expensive. They provide bonding which I can get cheaper through The National Locksmith. They offer certifications which very few locksmiths put any stock into. Other than that I'm not sure.

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:41 pm
by escher7
Comment removed.

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:00 pm
by GWiens2001
It might be considered by some as poor etiquette to keep advertising another forum.

Just saying

Gordon

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 3:14 am
by escher7
GWiens2001 wrote:It might be considered by some as poor etiquette to keep advertising another forum.

Just saying

Gordon


Since when are we in competition with LP101? I was under the impression that both sites are to further the sport. Besides, those pictures are only to suggest ideas to those here who think t-shirts are a good idea. Most people who use this site also know about and use LP 101 as well.
To be honest, you sound like a Republican talking about Democrats, or vice versa. And we know where that has taken us.

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 4:32 am
by GWiens2001
Not trying to get into an argument. I am quite active in both forums. Yes, both sites promote locks sport and information on locks, as well as picking them. Just mentioning that it can be considered poor etiquette.

Gordon

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:24 am
by MrWizard
I said if you are in the USA and serious about being viewed as someone that is trust worthy to be carrying picks on you at anytime anyplace joining the only real recognized association to join ALOA. The fees are just as high here it is over 200 a year and I guess they have a high registration fee but that is one time only. In 1978 it was like 25 bucks. Their training classes are great and when complete and can pass the certification process for each level you have proof you are at least knowledgeable in those areas and have a diploma for your wall and letters applied after you name like a professional does that has been schooled to certain degree. This would help you advance in areas of employment. If you are in the actual business of doing locksmith work you would want to be a member if you are not you would get no real benefit. or if you don't care to take real hands on classes not just a written test to be certified. Each year they have different locations you can take the classes it isn't always Texas sometimes it is in Las Vegas which is much better as you get to go there have fun and learn something too. Also when someone like a potential customer wants to be sure they are hiring a real locksmith they can go to ALOA web site look you up. It help generate a customer base that you might not otherwise get a call from and makes them feel more comfortable when looking for a legit lock company. This was started because of all the scam smiths that have popped up in the news.

http://www.findalocksmith.com/search.aspx

This is also displayed in the phone directory pointing people where to go to be sure to check out who they are hiring to screw with their locks. Just saying what I do it isn't for everyone that is for sure but 200.00 a year in today's market is nothing anymore, pay more than that for cable TV or locks you are practicing on. Anyway I understand why you would not want to spend money when you don't really have to. Normally if you are working for a lock company they are glad to send you to these classes and pay your way and the hotel room and flight to and from and free vegas dinner shows with drinks and still get paid for the week and don't have to work at least that is what I got . :smile:

*I remove the comment about The Nation Locksmith Magazine bonding status as it was rude and offensive.* :mrgreen:

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:25 pm
by escher7
I originally posted this topic with a view to having a card or button that would serve to show that we have an interest in locks and lockpicking as as sport - not to provide certification. The premise does not seem to be supported so I leave it there.

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:39 pm
by MrWizard
GWiens2001 wrote:Not trying to get into an argument. I am quite active in both forums. Yes, both sites promote locks sport and information on locks, as well as picking them. Just mentioning that it can be considered poor etiquette.

Gordon


I agree totally

Re: Membership card or lapel pin?

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:56 pm
by escher7
MrWizard wrote:
GWiens2001 wrote:Not trying to get into an argument. I am quite active in both forums. Yes, both sites promote locks sport and information on locks, as well as picking them. Just mentioning that it can be considered poor etiquette.

Gordon


I agree totally



I removed the post so those concerned with etiquette won't have their sensitivities disturbed.