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Although Ken may not give out his secret steel forumal you can always try to call as a customer and speak to Cliff who answers the phones. Great guy who always helps so he may be able to add some info. If nothing at all then maybe they will release why they call it Government steel. Perhaps the formula is so good that the government uses it and Ken discovered it.
escher7 wrote:Thanks Elbow. I will wait until next week and contact him. Meanwhile I was going to order a few picks from Peterson, but the postage and handling on $21 was another $32. Crazy when I just ordered a few things from Handcuffwarehouse (much heavier) and they only charged $12.95 for special delivery.
I had the same problem and in the "Notes" area I mentioned that the USPS charges $5.95 to mail my entire order, & they actually sent it US Mail and only billed me for the $5.95!
3:slender hook 1
and I sawed the handle of my broken peterson gem to discover it's not a full tang handle. the metal only extends as far as the little hole in the front of the handle.if it extended the entire length it would provide better feel of feedback.
I have a sparrows worm rake and its pretty tough I abuse it daily never even bent it.can't speak of they're hooks though as I do not own one.I still like my southords.just get a few extra hooks and modify them.
JamesOzment1 wrote: and I sawed the handle of my broken peterson gem to discover it's not a full tang handle. the metal only extends as far as the little hole in the front of the handle.if it extended the entire length it would provide better feel of feedback.
A decent magnet is useful to explore what is inside handles.
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm
(21:55:20) HAL 9001RC:: Heh heh uh heh uh heh uh uh heh PhoneMan said ass
MBI wrote:A few years back a member here ordered some picks from Peterson. In the process of the transaction an invoice to Peterson from his steel supplier was accidentally sent to the customer, listing the cost and specs for the govt steel. Without really thinking about it the member posted it on the forum here since this question has come up before about what Govt steel really is. A discussion ensued about whether it was fair to Peterson to release this proprietary info. Out of respect for the pickmaker the member who posted it quickly edited the post to remove the information. It's not alchemy, but it is good quality steel, made to certain specifications as requested by Peterson.
So it is proprietary I take it? If Peterson had a metallurgist or similar design the product makeup and heat treatment it falls under trade secret laws. If not, then it is just another alloy or purchase order.
Josephus wrote:So it is proprietary I take it? If Peterson had a metallurgist or similar design the product makeup and heat treatment it falls under trade secret laws. If not, then it is just another alloy or purchase order.
Disclaimer: I'm not a metallurgist by any stretch of the imagination and I'm going off my memory, which admittedly is not what it used to be. So you may want to take my comments with a grain of salt.
When I saw the scan of the invoice, and given who the customer was and the thickness of the steel, it was clearly intended for making picks. I recognized the steel alloy that was listed but it struck me that it wasn't just a "stock" order. I seem to recall it had some specific heat treating/tempering instructions as an addendum on it. Basically it was more like "give me some of that, but do this, this, and this to it." Where that puts it in terms of patents and trade secret laws, I have no idea. In the end what it boils down to is that they don't publish the specs so it was decided that we'd be respectful and not do so here either.
I don't know if that clarifies my earlier comment for you or just muddies the water.
Oldfast wrote:Great thread with some very interesting thoughts!
Lookin' forward to your full review escher.
But I suspect it will be awhile yet.
I put this project on hold, but will try to get it back on my agenda. I would be very interested in what the deleted post revealed about the Peterson alloy, which I suspect is just 301 stainless or something similar. And remember, Peterson uses two types of materials, one of which is just a standard carbon steel, so we must be careful not to compare apples and oranges.
In terms of strength and resilience, for my money there is no pick even close to the Southord Max. They use 301 with a high yield temper giving a tensile strength of 270,000 psi (Peterson claims 280,000 psi), but more importantly they cut the steel using EDM (electric discharge machining), a process that does not disturb the structure or hardness as other processes do. They are expensive ($11.95), but have a lifetime guarantee. I have posted this picture before, but it speaks for itself:
Escher, I think the thread topic clears which metal we are talking about and I really like that picture/test. Please do post more. I have not yet had the pleasure of playing with a Southord Max so if possible post close ups of the pics. More specifically the edges that arrive out of the package. Sorry I am going off course here. If this was already done before please advise and if so possible direct.
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