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Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

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Neilau

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Post Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:46 am

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

RSA = Republic of South Africa ??

or take your pick.http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/Republic+of+South+Africa
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escher7

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Post Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:26 am

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

I have posted for a year that Petersons are over-rated. The .015's bend if you look at them.
My guess is that if quality has gone down lately, that the company is either selling seconds and/or using a shoddy manufacturer compared to the American maker they used before. Pretty hard to boast "government steel" (which I have always assumed meant U.S. mil spec) when using an offshore maker.
Lauren defends Peterson but while he may be the nicest guy in the world, if his products suck, no one is going to buy them just to support a U.S. maker. Southord is a U.S. maker too, and their Max line are the toughest picks by a mile. And the customer service from both Southord and Sparrow is always great; both have sent me picks without charge for testing for example. A word of warning re Southord - don't expect them to replace a $2 - $3 pick, as they don't guarantee their cheaper line.
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rerun12

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Post Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:24 pm

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

i agree. though while a bit overpriced, the SO max line are rugged as hell. too bad they don't make a gem like profile..
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.
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nine4t4

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Post Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:23 pm

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

Lauren wrote:What will happen if Ken dies tomorrow? Will everyone still buy his products? And, will his product still be in production? All of you complainers should enjoy the ride. Here's a man that took a life journey just to make things a little brighter for everyone. Please, find me one person in the forum who has talked to Ken in the last 30 days to determine the issues with quality control. Those who know are not talking or Ken is not telling. Picks are a dime a dozen to any locksmith. Every brand breaks or will eventually fail. Can we just get off this horse? I can complain about Wal-Mart all day long. Sorry, Wal-Mart associates. Still, someone will jump on the band wagon and respond. Not every pick profile will hold up. The Pagoda profile is relatively new to Peterson. It was an attempt to bring something "more" to the Peterson fellowship. Some things work and some things fail. Nevertheless, Peterson will undergo many more change. The company's future rests on merits of one man.


I read that repeatedly trying to make sense of the circuitous logic. I think I understand the point, as specious as it is.

" Here's a man that took a life journey just to make things a little brighter for everyone.", that's laying it on a bit thick. He's a business owner that sells lock tools, not Gandhi or MLK. I'm sure he's a good guy, but making him sound like a saint for running his business is a bit of a stretch

And, he's free to run his business as he feels appropriate. If market factors dictate that he needs to cut corners to maintain a price point or profitability, he can adapt however he wants, outsource, raise prices, or even walk away. The issue is that he's still got a premium product pricing, but is losing the premium product quality (in SOME circumstances). The Chinese made stuff can be good (you REAAAALY need to hunt those sites) at a fraction of the cost, and when it turns out to be crap it didn't cost 8 dollars a pick.

If you want to continue your WALMART example. What is happening is more like seeing Neiman Marcus on the doors, getting WALMART product, and then paying a Neiman Marcus bill at the cash. While I have no right to complain about low quality at a Walmart, I damn-well do if something USED to have a reputation for quality and acts like nothing has changed. Peterson is not supposed to be down there with GOSO or KLOM quality control, ....

Pagoda that you mention isn't a Peterson pick, SouthOrd uses that term. Peterson calls their bogota rip-off the 'bogie". I say rip off, and Rai(mundo) can correct me, but I don't see ANY accreditation for the design. Sparrow's call's theirs a triple peak, SouthOrd chose a name that could be confused with bogota, Peterson uses Bogie. Which is the most blatant example of admitting the original source. Same crime, but more brazen. MAYBE!!!!! JUST MAYBE!!!! if Peterson had worked with Raimundo they could have gleaned some information from the trial and error he put into the design, instead of just trying to copy the design that is now being apologized for. So you say shit happens in one sentence and that this is a teething issue with a new design in another?

We know that picks break, shit happens. A life-time warranty on a pick would be stupid. Nobody is asking for that. But when things do go wrong a proper customer service model doesn't say, "When we get the same complaint enough times, then we'll worry about it" in reference to the broken pick

Lauren, this isn't about being angry with Peterson, like the classic parental line, "I'm not angry, just disappointed.", these people are disappointed It looks like there have been some changes to the company, and I understand that some of it may be difficulty with suppliers or whatever items beyond Ken's control. Nobody would seriously complain about GOSO or KLOM quality issues because we know that it's chinese crap. But when we see the name that we view as representing quality slowly deteriorate it's good standing, it's unsettling.

I'm very open minded about stuff. When I get something defective from a company, my first thought isn't to raise hell. Sometimes it's a fluke, like the guy working the press was going through a break-up, hungvover or had a death in the family. I just happen to get the product from that one bad day, a fluke. It's not the defective product that forms my opinion, it's how the company reacts to it. Even a pat "Thank you for your input, we are looking into it, but can't offer any solution at this moment...." is better than nothing

It's not about the product it's about the reputation.
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jeffmoss26

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Post Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:56 pm

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

Go to Peterson's website and look at the 2008-2009 PDF catalog that is still up for some reason. Their products were a lot better then and they definitely discontinued some good stuff.
I don't get it.
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Lauren

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Post Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:25 pm

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

Some of you guys know Ken personally as well as his battles, and those of you who don't will find it painless to talk smack. Everday was a new battle when I spoke to him over the term of two years. And, I currently have no financial gain to be on his side. I do my best not to slander people who are not here to defend themselves. Here again I find my self riding the horse. If Ken's Q.C. is going down, do all of you naysayers think he's going to tell you why (retorical question)? Rule number one: "Never say or do anything that causes you to lose stockholder value in your own company". Papa Gleb, since you started this thread, why don't you take a short trip from Brooklyn to Rochester and get all of us some answers and see how you feel about yourself afterwards. You could be the Keypicking spokesman. I look foward to your official report (LOL).
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xeo

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Post Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:36 pm

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

This thread is taking an interesting direction. However the fact remains: the products speak for themselves. The products and their quality and performance are THE bottom line and nothing else matters.
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Lauren

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Post Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:43 pm

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

Very wisely stated, XEO. But, I still want that offical report.
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Doogs

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Post Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:55 am

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

After some thought I decided to contact Ken just to give him a heads up on my purchase. Not to be a dick or get anything out of it but to just let him know there may (or may not) be issues with QC within the company as he can't fix something if he doesn't know. It seems the only way to contact him is through phoning which seems strange in this day and age. It was after regular business hours today so I'll try tomorrow and see if I can get an e-mail addy so I can attach my pics. I'll update with his/their reply (if it isn't violating any confidentiality).
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Lauren

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Post Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:23 am

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

Doogs, that's a noble approach. I hope we can all put this Q.C. issue to rest with some good news.
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Oldfast

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Post Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

xeo wrote:This thread is taking an interesting direction.....

Indeed it has.

Lauren, I can thoroughly appreciate what you're getting at here (if I'm understanding correctly).
In my line of work I make plenty of business decisions with my heart rather than my calculator.
I don't always have the luxury of keeping a 'human' element in the equation. But do what I can.

I've hired people to do a job knowing their work was suffering due to their current circumstances.
To me it was a 'loyalty' thing. He'd done good work for us in the past so we tried to stay with him
through his hard times. I've stretched peoples' debt out much longer than I probably should've.
But there was history between us. Out of respect I did what I could for as long as I was able to.

Not always the smartest decisions from a business standpoint. And yes I've gotten burned a
couple times. Nevertheless, at the end of the day I felt good about the way I treated people.
.
.
.
That being said, I gotta say, I don't understand all your emphasis on finding out WHY the quality is going down.
I don't see the relevance. Not to be an asshole, but - the most heart-wrenching unfortunate set of circumstances
could be the underlying cause of this... so what? The fact remains - people are not getting what they're paying for.

I purchased your book. I purchased your tools. Why? Because it's top notch stuff! Well, that and the fact that you
can't find those sort of tools anywhere else, lol. If something happens to you that affects your work, I'll be there to
support you in any way I can... but let's face it, I wouldn't be purchasing your tools for the time being.

The whole idea behind paying top dollar is to get something that is a step up from what I
could otherwise purchase for a third of the price. I for one will be suspending any further
purchases for now in hopes that these issues will work themselves out.

Lauren wrote:Some of you guys know Ken personally as well as his battles, and those of you who don't will find it painless to talk smack. Everday was a new battle when I spoke to him over the term of two years. And, I currently have no financial gain to be on his side. I do my best not to slander people who are not here to defend themselves. Here again I find my self riding the horse. If Ken's Q.C. is going down, do all of you naysayers think he's going to tell you why (retorical question)? Rule number one: "Never say or do anything that causes you to lose stockholder value in your own company". Papa Gleb, since you started this thread, why don't you take a short trip from Brooklyn to Rochester and get all of us some answers and see how you feel about yourself afterwards. You could be the Keypicking spokesman. I look foward to your official report (LOL).

And jumping on Gleb for simply posting his personal observations... I dunno. I just re-read his OP -
it seems to me he made quite the effort to word it delicately and stick to what he felt were the facts.
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DroppedTensionWrench

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Post Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:57 pm

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

A company should keep the quality of their products consistent with the consumer expectations. If you can't keep up and need to raise costs do it. I don't mind paying a few extra dollars. The value of having quality tools negates the price especially if the tools last. Customer service is also a huge aspect. Mistakes do happen. A good company should provide replacement for faulty products. Many reasons why these things happen, but in the end you the consumers have the purchasing power. American manufacturing should be a pinnacle for quality and standards.
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LockButcher

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Post Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:35 pm

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

I love this! Everyone is making awesome points! And hopefully we can get the problems remedied.
I think Doogs is taking the best step though. If I was a salesman and one of my friends found out there were a bunch of people with issues with what I was selling in wouldn't want them to stick up for me. I'd want them to get a hold of me and tell me so I could either offer amends or determine whether or not the problem was in my control an I could make the proper adjustments to fix it myself. I personally have never had a problem with a Peterson pick. But I've never bought from them other than their factory seconds sales either haha.

And if you all are so close with Ken would one of you please tell him to take down the whole "we only sell to licensed locksmiths" warning on their page haha. I was using cheapo amazon sets and sparrows stuff before I found out it was just to keep the riff raff out. Haha
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tpark

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Post Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:00 am

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

LockButcher wrote:I love this! Everyone is making awesome points! And hopefully we can get the problems remedied.
I think Doogs is taking the best step though. If I was a salesman and one of my friends found out there were a bunch of people with issues with what I was selling in wouldn't want them to stick up for me. I'd want them to get a hold of me and tell me so I could either offer amends or determine whether or not the problem was in my control an I could make the proper adjustments to fix it myself. I personally have never had a problem with a Peterson pick. But I've never bought from them other than their factory seconds sales either haha.

And if you all are so close with Ken would one of you please tell him to take down the whole "we only sell to licensed locksmiths" warning on their page haha. I was using cheapo amazon sets and sparrows stuff before I found out it was just to keep the riff raff out. Haha


The last set I got had two defective items, one was a significant void in the shaft of the pick, which will break if I lean on it. I've sent a message to the vendor. For the cost, I would have expected that everything should be defect free. Everything else in the kit was good, and the picks are great. Even if there are some bad ones, the good picks are really good.

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xeo

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Post Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:06 am

Re: Peterson's Significant Down Grade (?)

That just goes to show that there is apparently zero quality control.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

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