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Pick "rehabiliation"

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flywheel

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Post Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:02 pm

Pick "rehabiliation"

Anyone ever try to fix or rehabilitate damaged picks? With success?

I boogered my Peterson's 0.015" half diamond pick. Bent the end down and to the side. :twisted: Great pick, but a little too thin (in profile) in my mind. Since it is one of two picks that I will always grab first I decided to blacksmith it back into shape. Using a Coleman propane torch I heated the pick end glowing orange and pressed against a flat spot on the vice. I did this multiple times until the shape and profile was straight. Ended with heating the last half of the pick to orange and the quenched in a cup of salt water. Gave it a quick git-r-done rub across 600 grit sandpaper to get rid of any roughness and it appears to be back to normal. The whole thing was a couple minute operation.

...And now the locks are flying open... :roll:

That's all. Take care!
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Neilau

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Post Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

Your Pick will probably be very brittle. After quenching you need to temper it. depending on the steel, you can probably do this in an oven.

Look up tempering to get more details on time, temp. etc.

If I break a pick, depending on the pick and where it breaks, I'll turn it into something else or grind a sharp hook in the end and make a broken key/pick extractor.

I hate to waste anything. :D
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flywheel

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Post Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

I don't know how to approach the tempering problem because it has a plastic handle. I was hoping the forces involved in picking weren't enough to cause any problems with brittleness. Maybe dunk the end in 100 C water. I know, not exactly controlled heating and cooling.
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Neilau

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Post Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:23 pm

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

Silly me --- didn't think of the plastic handle. :oops:

I don't think boiling water will be hot enough.

There are a few knife makers on this site who could probably give a bit more detail.

But be careful because it will be more brittle than before. If the forces used before were enough to bend it, they will definitely be enough to break it.

I suppose that you could always remove the plastic handle and re handle it after tempering.
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flywheel

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Post Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:36 pm

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

I'm very gently with my picks but this one got caught in the tiny keyway of a US SET Eagle padlock. The plug is probably only 3/8". Got it open and immediately cursed my success when the pick came out. There are consequences to knocking back beers and lock picking.
So far the rehabbed pick is performing admirably.
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xeo

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Post Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

I've broken and bent many picks. The picks that are bent I have bent back. After being bent back and forth so many times they will eventually just snap or become butter. You'd probably need to do all kinds of heating/cooling to get it back to normal of which I lack the skill and patience.
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escher7

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Post Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:49 am

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

If the pick is Peterson's spring steel (carbon steel) line, it can be heat treated by heating the working end with a propane torch. First wrap the handle with a damp cloth so it doesn't melt, and then heat the steel until it is cherry red, (bright, not dull red but not so much heat that it becomes orange). Then quench in oil, (motor oil or even cooking oil will work). Now the steel will be hard but very brittle. Next, clean the metal with a 350 - 400 grit "sand" paper until it is shiny. Now re-wrap the handle with the wet cloth and play the torch flame evenly (and carefully) over the whole end until the colour goes from straw (gold) to blue. When the tip is just turning blue you should have a good trade-off between spring and hardness. If it turns purple it will probably be too soft and you will have to start over.

However, from the way you describe the pick bending, I can almost guarantee that it is not high carbon but rather "Government Steel". Peterson doesn't say so on the site, but it is most likely 301 stainless which cannot be hardened by heat. This type of steel comes hardened from the factory after being rolled and compressed under very high pressure which work-hardens the steel. The usual 301 mix is what's called an austenitic steel and does not contain enough carbon to respond to heat treatment, so the best you can do is straighten it and leave it alone.

I am quite familiar with the .015" "Government Steel" used by that company having purchased one, along with some DCAP picks in the same material, just for testing. In my opinion there are two problems with the pick: firstly .015" is far too thin, but more importantly I believe "Government Steel" is poorly manufactured. The .015" Reach that I bought straighten the first time I used it. Thinking perhaps I was too rough on it, I straightened it and the same thing happened. I then bent the pick sideways about 35 degrees and instead of snapping back, it stayed bent. All other picks tested, including Southord, Sparrow etc. will bend sideways at least 45 degrees and will return to their original shape.

Thinking maybe it was just the thinness that was the problem, I tried the DCAP's which are .025" and found the same thing. They bend rather than springing back to the correct shape. The DCAP half diamond, after being bent sideways to 45 degrees stayed bent at about 20 degrees. It also slowly bent backwards after a half hour of use and had to be straightened.

I am the first to admit that as a medium level picker I still use fairly heavy tension, but none of the other commercial picks have ever given me this problem, even the $10 Chinese set I first bought on coming back to the sport. Petersons claim a tensile strength of 280,000 psi which is the same as Sparrow and Southord's Max picks, but there is simply no comparison. I can hang a 2 1/2 lb. weight from a Southord Max and it will not bend or break.

I did not mean to turn this into a comparative rant about Peterson products and I am giving away some of the content of a review of Southord Max that I am working on, but given that Flywheel had the same experience I wanted to respond. I know Peterson has many happy users and this will no doubt cause some feedback, but there it is.
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escher7

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Post Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:55 am

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

AIR_20140510_00000.jpg




(Southord Max)
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flywheel

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Post Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:17 pm

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

Nice picture!
Perhaps the carbon content of the pick is not enough to re-"harden" the pick, but the process may have removed any micro-fractures created by the metal being permanently deformed.
I didn't have any problems with the plastic handle and the pick end glowing orange. The thin metal dissipates heat quite quickly. That also means it heats up to glowing in seconds. I don't think I could have done the controlled heating as you described.

The pick is back in the rotation and for the time being and I have saved a few dollars and the shipping time needed to buy a new one. Too bad S&H is so much when all you want is a new pick or two. I think heat treating the pick back into shape is easy enough to make it worthwhile. Anyone who tries should be aware of what kind of metal their pick is made from.

Have a good day!
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escher7

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Post Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:18 pm

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

flywheel wrote:Nice picture!
Perhaps the carbon content of the pick is not enough to re-"harden" the pick, but the process may have removed any micro-fractures created by the metal being permanently deformed.
I didn't have any problems with the plastic handle and the pick end glowing orange. The thin metal dissipates heat quite quickly. That also means it heats up to glowing in seconds. I don't think I could have done the controlled heating as you described.

The pick is back in the rotation and for the time being and I have saved a few dollars and the shipping time needed to buy a new one. Too bad S&H is so much when all you want is a new pick or two. I think heat treating the pick back into shape is easy enough to make it worthwhile. Anyone who tries should be aware of what kind of metal their pick is made from.

Have a good day!



Yes, when I was about to order a couple of picks from Peterson for testing I saw the minimum shipping charge to Canada of close to $40 in Canadian funds and decided to order from Lockpick Shop instead. Still not cheap but better. Southord on the other hand has raised their shipping a bit but for small orders of a few picks they charge around $7 for U.S. orders and $9.85 to Canada, which is very reasonable.

Heating stainless probably doesn't do any harm, but with a carbon content of only .10%, it would have no effect on the hardness. High carbon steel has between .6% and .99% carbon.

Heating a very small object like a pick does require a great deal of experience with a torch, but since your pick is almost certainly stainless the exercise is moot anyway. What amazes (disappoints) me about Peterson Government Steel is the ease with which it can be forced past its elastic limit. That is what happens when the picks bend and don't return to their shape; they have gone beyond their ability to rebound and that should not happen during normal use. The only explanation is that if the steel is 301 or something close, the manufacturing process is not resulting in a material that is comparable to that used by Sparrow, Southord and others. Even Southord's basic picks which are Full Hard (185,000 psi) rather than the much tougher High Yield (270,000 psi) used in the Max line, stand up to virtually anything you can throw at them without deforming. Yet Peterson claims their Government Steel is rated at 280,000 psi.

Anyway, Southord has a Slimline version of your half diamond ($5.39 with steel handles or $2.10 without) that will not bend or deform under even extreme use and come with a 30 day warranty.
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flywheel

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Post Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:06 pm

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

"I'm not through with you yet!"
2014-08-29 12.29.34.jpg
2014-08-29 12.49.10.jpg
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escher7

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Post Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:14 pm

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

You have done a great job of illustrating why I believe that Peterson ("government steel" picks in particular) are made of steel that just does not stand up. I am a very average, somewhat heavy-handed picker, yet I have never bent a pick the way yours look in the "before" photo. It takes a great deal of force to deform a pick in the flat plane, (see my picture of a Southord Max above). I know Peterson has many supporters, but considering the emphasis they place on their steel quality, I find their picks disappointing. Southord or Sparrow would be unlikely to bend that way.
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flywheel

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Post Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:18 pm

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

It's all good. When the time comes I'll probably reread this thread and try the picks you have recommended. I do like the 0.015" gem though...

Let me add that the top pick is a Southord 0.025" short hook.
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escher7

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Post Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:43 pm

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

flywheel wrote:It's all good. When the time comes I'll probably reread this thread and try the picks you have recommended. I do like the 0.015" gem though...

Let me add that the top pick is a Southord 0.025" short hook.


Wow! You bent a Southord? I thought I had a heavy hand, although it looks like it stood up better than the others.
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flywheel

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Post Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:55 pm

Re: Pick "rehabiliation"

Crap! My go to thick pick and it's backup both KIA.

Top pick is Peterson 0.025" gem.
Bottom pick is Southord 0.025" short hook.

Both have received rehab treatment and both were damaged inside the same lock. What is interesting to note is Peterson snapped cleanly and Southord bent like taffy. Peterson picks definitely need to be tempered.
2014-09-05 09.01.54.jpg

"It's not real tension unless you are close to passing out from strain of holding it."
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