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Posted: **Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:12 pm**

The demands of pin modification are many fold. Small brass pegs spinning at ungodly rpms and making fine cuts with large bulky tools are only a few of the challenges. No one ever mentions groundhogs in the ceiling.

I live in a rural setting with a standalone garage. Today I was spinning some brass and heard little footsteps on the insulation above. Has to be a raccoon or cat, right? Nope, I guess groundhogs can climb also. Who knew? Somehow he got down when my back was turned but quickly hid behind some plywood. I didn't know what it was until I grabbed a flashlight and took a peek in the darkened corner. I have never had a groundhog "chirp" at me before but it was very sharp and direct and spooked me at first. It also reminded me that I was wearing flip flops. This guy destroyed the weather stripping at the bottom of the garage door so my toes probably weren't going to fare any better. I got the plywood moved with the chirps getting louder and after running the wrong way (of course) he found his way to freedom.

Take it easy :pimpmofo:

Posted: **Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:19 pm**

Sounds like a lively foray into pin modding. Read this aloud for my son and wife, both of whom were highly entertained. Thanks for sharing! :mrgreen:

Gordon

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:34 pm**

I don't know what the max key pin length is but this must be close to it. I was hoping to make a challenge lock with a working key. I found a nice candidate with decent bitting. Then I took a look inside. That is not going to work.
:slam:

Forget the keys! No limits!

2014-08-24 11.15.09.jpg

2014-08-24 11.15.36.jpg

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:10 pm**

That would work. Actually, for best results, get a key pin that is too long, and file it flush and sharp at the shear line. Any lifting of that pin would be overlifting. Now put a cut in the key pin so it is spooled just below the shear line, so if they do overlift, it will feel like a false set, and they will lift it some more. Maybe another spool cut below that one. Now you need to put a short key pin with a spooled driver behind it.

:twisted:

Gordon

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:10 pm**

GWiens2001 wrote:That would work. Actually, for best results, get a key pin that is too long, and file it flush and sharp at the shear line. Any lifting of that pin would be overlifting. Now put a cut in the key pin so it is spooled just below the shear line, so if they do overlift, it will feel like a false set, and they will lift it some more. Maybe another spool cut below that one. Now you need to put a short key pin with a spooled driver behind it.

Gordon

Who needs enemies...

Good idea. A working key might be prone to breaking with that kind of cut in it though. Making it work properly the length of key pin plus driver pin must be greater than depth of bible. If I had spare materials and didn't have to cannibalize locks for spare parts I would give it a try. If I come across some lengthy key or driver pins I might set them aside for future deviousness.

In other news challenge lock pin sets 2.0 and 2.1 are almost complete. 2.0 were the prototypes and 2.1 are the final products with much tighter tolerances. I will post some pictures once the challenge locks arrive at their destination.

Have a nice day! :hbg:

Posted: **Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:20 pm**

mdc5150 wrote:What I have done in the past was to take a cheap flathead screwdriver and grind a cutting edge on it then heat treat it. Set the screwdriver up in a vise and then chuck a pin in a dremel. Put the dremel on high speed and shape the pin. Kind of like a hand held lathe.

It can be done with a drill as well, just goes slower

Also the other day I was pinning up an Assa sidebar lock cylinder and I noticed the cylinder holes all look to have been threaded, right at the top with a tap?

Posted: **Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:15 am**

jones wrote:
Also the other day I was pinning up an Assa sidebar lock cylinder and I noticed the cylinder holes all look to have been threaded, right at the top with a tap?

Some ASSA locks use grub screws to keeps the pins in.

Posted: **Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:20 am**

Riyame wrote:
jones wrote:
Also the other day I was pinning up an Assa sidebar lock cylinder and I noticed the cylinder holes all look to have been threaded, right at the top with a tap?

Some ASSA locks use grub screws to keeps the pins in.

I just figured the threads were there to hinder picking
I buy my Assa locks without being keyed, to save $$$

Posted: **Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:47 pm**

Good day folks,

More pin modifications!

1.jpg

But let's do something different this time.

2014-08-23 13.49.24.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg

Pin in pin! The goal was a zero feedback lock picking experience. While the drivers may bind under tension the key pins would still feel springy.

The pin centers were drilled out using a 1/16 inch drill bit. Ideally this would mean a perfect 0.0625" diameter axial cut. Considering I was holding the drill bit with a pair of pliers while the dremel spun the pin the resulting hole probably fell into the 0.065-0.070" diameter range. Next, the serrations were formed using a diamond encrusted cut-off disc. By now the pin walls are very thin in certain spots. I had some penny nails with 0.050" inch shafts to use as the internal pins but I was worried that the brass outers might deform when tension was applied to the plug. Instead, I found the closest sized nails that were slightly larger than the hole diameter. The nail heads were filed down to fit into the bible chambers and the nail shaft was filed, sanded, and cut to fit inside the brass without binding. This was by far the most time consuming step.

The last picture does not show the final product. At that point the internal pins are still ~0.100" too long. They were shortened to accommodate the space taken up by the springs.

The above pins were lovingly placed into a Yale KIK challenge lock with paracentric keyway and sent to Farmerfreak. He has not been heard from since. RIP.

Thanks for stopping by! :hbg:

Posted: **Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:59 pm**

Nice work, and very creative, Flywheel!

Gordon

Posted: **Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:34 pm**

Yeah, good idea. Also, if you have a small lathe, you could turn a bunch on a nice and long section of brass, nickel, nickel-silver rod and then just make the separation points very thin between so you can work a whole big set of pins and then snap them off when done and file flat!

escher7 wrote:Quick thought on tapering. If you were to start with a thin brass rod chucked in a drill press, it could be reduce to size, shaped or grooved, and tapered - all by using abrasive strips while running the drill. Of course good calipers would be required, but you might even be able to make multiple pins from the same rod. Further, by reviewing some of Lauren's techniques for making keys (see 101), you will find a neat technique using a dremel slot cutter while turning the rod in a simple jig to machine the rod.

Posted: **Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:36 pm**

THIS... IS... STUNNING!!!! and STICKY TOO NOW!

flywheel wrote:Good day folks,

More pin modifications!
1.jpg

But let's do something different this time.
2014-08-23 13.49.24.jpg

2.jpg
3.jpg
4.jpg
5.jpg

Pin in pin! The goal was a zero feedback lock picking experience. While the drivers may bind under tension the key pins would still feel springy.

The pin centers were drilled out using a 1/16 inch drill bit. Ideally this would mean a perfect 0.0625" diameter axial cut. Considering I was holding the drill bit with a pair of pliers while the dremel spun the pin the resulting hole probably fell into the 0.065-0.070" diameter range. Next, the serrations were formed using a diamond encrusted cut-off disc. By now the pin walls are very thin in certain spots. I had some penny nails with 0.050" inch shafts to use as the internal pins but I was worried that the brass outers might deform when tension was applied to the plug. Instead, I found the closest sized nails that were slightly larger than the hole diameter. The nail heads were filed down to fit into the bible chambers and the nail shaft was filed, sanded, and cut to fit inside the brass without binding. This was by far the most time consuming step.

The last picture does not show the final product. At that point the internal pins are still ~0.100" too long. They were shortened to accommodate the space taken up by the springs.

The above pins were lovingly placed into a Yale KIK challenge lock with paracentric keyway and sent to Farmerfreak. He has not been heard from since. RIP.

Thanks for stopping by!

Posted: **Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:40 pm**

elbowmacaroni wrote:THIS... IS... STUNNING!!!! and STICKY TOO NOW!

And well deserved, too.

Gordon

Posted: **Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:33 am**

Great idea flywheel... very interesting! If I got it right the springs are under the pins in the last pictures and the key pins are over them, right?
I wonder what kind of feedback this lock gives... very uncommon I guess!

Cheers

Posted: **Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:30 am**

femurat wrote:Great idea flywheel... very interesting! If I got it right the springs are under the pins in the last pictures and the key pins are over them, right?
I wonder what kind of feedback this lock gives... very uncommon I guess!

Cheers

Until all of the brass outer driver pins are set, the key pins will always be springy. Unless of course a key pin is overset..

It's very very evil, I wish I had come up with it. Good job Flywheel.

.:: Keypicking :: Anything And Everything For Locksmiths, Hobbyist Lock Pickers, Locksport, Lock Picking, lockpicks, cutaways and Security. Simply The Best Lockpicking Forum Around!

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