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Pin Modification

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mdc5150

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Post Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:28 pm

Re: Pin Modification

What I have done in the past was to take a cheap flathead screwdriver and grind a cutting edge on it then heat treat it. Set the screwdriver up in a vise and then chuck a pin in a dremel. Put the dremel on high speed and shape the pin. Kind of like a hand held lathe.
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flywheel

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Post Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Pin Modification

The wood chipper shot these things far! But I found them...
2014-08-02 12.04.49.jpg
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:55 pm

Re: Pin Modification

Lookin' awfully nasty! Very nice.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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jeffmoss26

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Post Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:09 pm

Re: Pin Modification

Good lord!!
macgng: i just thought the cat was a real tiny bear
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
xeo: i root for the kernel
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:41 am

Re: Pin Modification

Just thinkin' out loud here. Food for thought anyway.

To maximize the potential of the nastiness you've created,
obviously the bitting needs to be considered. But what about
the perfect binding order?! One that compliments your pins.

In addition to simply finding a lock whose natural binding order is similar to the one you seek...
it seems to me you could encourage a particular order through varying the diameter of each pin.
Say you wanted the last pin to set last, seems like you could do that. Or maybe you want previously
set pins to be more apt to drop when that last pin is being set, etc. You could do a number of things.

Anyway, not sure how much of that you might be able to utilize. Again, just thinking.
It would take some calipers, some thought, and probably a lot of experimenting.
Actually it's one of those 'someday projects' I've planned on doing... someday.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Jowens90

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Post Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:23 am

Re: Pin Modification

These are some wicked looking pins.. not sure how I would act if I gutted a lock and these came out... i believe id be horrified.
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GWiens2001

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Post Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: Pin Modification

Jowens90 wrote:These are some wicked looking pins.. not sure how I would act if I gutted a lock and these came out... i believe id be horrified.


Have had fun bringing locks with modified pins/plugs to my favorite lock shop. They have made it clear that after even some minor modifications, the pickability at their level would result in the use of an electric pick gun of the rotary persuasion. Heck, even some factory pins would require those measures.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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flywheel

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Post Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: Pin Modification

Jowens90 wrote:... not sure how I would act if I gutted a lock and these came out...

That means you picked the lock. Good job.

The T-pins and serrated pin are beautiful. All the others are ugly! Pin modification rarely ends looking the way you imagined. While impressive looking this lock is actually an easy pick. The mistake came in adding pin 3 and 6. Their full diameter ridges do not allow the T-pins to come fully into play. In hind sight I would replace them with long spools or mushroom pins. Spools would allow a deep false set and bind the T-pins. Then, if properly placed, lifting the spool would cause the other pins to drop. As it is the serrations do not allow a deep enough set to cause trouble. I did go back and sand down the lower ridges to retain the bare minimum edge. It made a small improvement, but still very pickable.

Oldfast wrote:But what about the perfect binding order...through varying the diameter of each pin...

I've had this thought too. Probably the most you can hope for is a quick sanding (remove a thousandth) of all but one pin and leave that pin with full diameter ridge to cause pin dropping. After a few pin mod sessions you quickly realize that the whole exercise is about managing diminishing returns. It can be represented accurately with a logistic growth curve with time input v pick resistance. Lock dis/reassembly and making the pin mods easily puts you in the top half of the curve. On this lock the top bend of the curve had been rounded.

I gained some experience with this adventure and probably should try it again with milder cuts and spools in place of the serrated and "mangled" pin.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:19 pm

Re: Pin Modification

Ok. So this may very well be one of those ideas that plays out
splendidly in your head, but not so much in actual application.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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flywheel

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Post Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:34 pm

Re: Pin Modification

Oldfast wrote:Ok. So this may very well be one of those ideas that plays out
splendidly in your head, but not so much in actual application.


Well, if you had an automated CNC lathe with exacting tolerances...Oh! The things you could do! :drool:
Even with garage tools and well worn mass produced locks it's still fun to add a little magic sauce while keeping the lock functional.
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coldrake

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Post Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:48 am

Re: Pin Modification

Taking some of this thread's advice in hand, as well as looking at various brands of security pin, I present my gnarliest pin creations to date:

IMG_20140812_171810.jpg


So the first four pins are relatively mundane, serrated and mushroom pins are nothing new or innovative, except that I put some of Oldfast's ideas into practice and tapered the 2nd pin slightly. However, I'm especially proud of the last two pins, considering all of this was done on a crappy 1200 RPM drill jerry-rigged in a vise. The fifth pin is essentially an ASSA knockoff, sometimes referred to as a "christmas tree". One of these: :assa: . The sixth pin is definitely not a screw-up! I totally meant to have the serrated pin transition into a sloped (?) spool. Not entirely sure what to call it, but I think 'coldrake pin' has a certain ring to it... :D


In all my excitement though, I forgot to pick it! It's going to put up a lot of resistance, but I'm confident I can open it.

-Colin
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flywheel

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Post Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:31 am

Re: Pin Modification

Looks good coldrake. :hbg:
I would love to pick a lock full of pins 5 and 6. What did you use to make the cuts?
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:51 am

Re: Pin Modification

Lookin' great guys!

Just fartin' out another idea, lol. Maybe you can run with it... maybe not.

-Modify the points of the key pins in such a way that makes it difficult for
a pick to get a good grip and lift? Obviously, much modification of any sort
here is likely to diminish the lifespan of the pins/lock... but it might be fun
to toy around with some ideas anyway. For example - rather than a normal
steep taper with a rounded point - how about a really gradual taper coming
to a very fine point? And have the point off-set rather than centered?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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flywheel

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Post Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:12 am

Re: Pin Modification

Oldfast wrote:...how about a really gradual taper coming
to a very fine point? And have the point off-set rather than centered?


Do the pins rest on a ledge or is their drop limited by channels in the plug wall? With a key do the pins rest on a flat spot or on a slope? Some mods may make a key unworkable. I've never tried key pin mods specifically on the point but I have thought about it in the context of what changes are possible while retaining a working key.

In the spirit of Folger Adam mogul locks I've been keeping an eye out for 2.9 mm ball bearings to try under the key pins. I'm thinking in a clean plug with clean pins and everything lightly lubricated the ball bearing might be a pain to center a pick under and add some pick resistance. I know some members have picked these prison locks...do the ball bearings make a difference?

Take care :pimpmofo:
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:59 am

Re: Pin Modification

To my knowledge, most (if not all) locks limit the drop of the keypins by means of a ledge/warding.
So a lot would be dependent on which lock and what keyway you use to try these modified pins.
But yeah, I'd agree your concerns are valid. I'd imagine any drastic modification of the keypins
would have a negative impact on the functionality of the key... or maybe even worse.

As far as ball bearing in Moguls. I've picked only a couple... but no, they didn't pose difficulty.
The multiple sheer lines and graduated spools however DID. lol viewtopic.php?p=68346#p68346
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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