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Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

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Bryanxwhite

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Post Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:02 pm

Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

I've been using this Precision Brand feeler stock for about a month now. I just recently wanted to start using fasteners to secure the handle to the pick. I have yet to find a drill bit that won't burn up after 1 hole. I'm using 1/8" drill bits on a Dewalt 3/8" cord drill. I've tried Dewalt and Rigid drill bits. Dewalt burned after 1 hole and Rigid's supposed "44% stronger cryogenically hardened" bit didn't even make a single hole!

I know someone out here has used this steel before and successfully drilled holes. My next course of action will be paying for the machine shop to drill them. In case anyone is wondering why I'm going through so much trouble just to use screws and nuts to fasten my picks.. I would like to be able to reuse a handle I spent 4 hours on in the event I break a pick. I don't really have that option with epoxy. Also, I think it looks damn cool and I like to try different options. Thanks guys!
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nhoj_yelbom

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Post Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:53 pm

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

Post some pictures of a pick, i would like to see it.
Wanted TrioVing, ASSA, BiLock, Environmental Locks and Keys, Ingersoll
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chris

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Post Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:02 am

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

Can't you get full carbide drill bits? Those are what they use to drill safes and such right? It might be expensive, but worth it if it's going to be used a lot it might be worth it.
Naaapaalm...sticks to kids...it sticks to the belly and it sticks to the ribs...
See those kids standing by the lake...drop some napalm and watch them bake.
Naaapaalm...sticks to kids...it sticks to the belly and it sticks to the ribs.
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Bryanxwhite

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Post Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:15 am

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

nhoj_yelbom wrote:Post some pictures of a pick, i would like to see it.

Im not at my computer to post pictures, but here's the link to my homebrew pictures.
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=4961&start=15
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Bryanxwhite

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Post Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:21 am

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

chris wrote:Can't you get full carbide drill bits? Those are what they use to drill safes and such right? It might be expensive, but worth it if it's going to be used a lot it might be worth it.

That's probably the route I need to go. The guy at Home Depot told me I would have to go to a specialty store. He's probably talking about those same bits. I need to see about ordering some. The one thing I have that will cut through it to make a hole is my Dremel tungsten badass material removal tool.
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steveslock

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Post Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:57 am

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

go slow and use lube.

if you can use a drill press that allows you to slow the bit down a lot and use a lot of pressure your going to have more luck. Heat is your enemy, if you don't have a cutting fluid you can use a little lard for your fluid.
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GeneT

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Post Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:14 pm

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

steveslock nailed it. A handheld drill is probably going to go way too fast. If you can't access a drill press, see if you can sandwich the steel between two pieces of 1018 or even aluminum and drill through the whole enchilada.

GsT
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mastersmith

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Post Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:29 pm

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

Try McMaster-Carr or any similar machinist supply type company. They have cobalt, carbide (tipped and solid) in standard, metric, wire, letter, number...What's your poison? Give them a call, tell them your issues, give them cash wait for delivery.
"All ye who come this art to see / to handle anything must cautious be...." Benjamin Franklin
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piotr

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Post Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:38 pm

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

Bryanxwhite wrote:I've been using this Precision Brand feeler stock for about a month now. I just recently wanted to start using fasteners to secure the handle to the pick. I have yet to find a drill bit that won't burn up after 1 hole. I'm using 1/8" drill bits on a Dewalt 3/8" cord drill. I've tried Dewalt and Rigid drill bits. Dewalt burned after 1 hole and Rigid's supposed "44% stronger cryogenically hardened" bit didn't even make a single hole!


I suspect you are using HSS (High Speed Steel) drill bits. HSS is a type of tool steel as is 1095 which would mean you are trying to drill a tool steel using a tool steel drill bit. This shouldn't work and you should just get be getting lots of heat.

To drill tool steel you need at least cobalt steel alloy drill bits but tungsten carbide would be better (but more expensive).
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piotr

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Post Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:59 pm

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

steveslock wrote:go slow and use lube.

if you can use a drill press that allows you to slow the bit down a lot and use a lot of pressure your going to have more luck. Heat is your enemy, if you don't have a cutting fluid you can use a little lard for your fluid.


If you tease out the implications of your advice its self-contradiction and badness becomes apparent. Heat is a product of friction and friction occurs when when the faces of the drill bit rub across the surface of the material being drilled. If the drill bit does more rubbing of the surface than cutting, heat will develop to the point of burning the drill bit. If the drill bit material is harder than the material being drilled the energy of the drill will be better converted into cutting force rather than friction and consequently heat.

Applying heavy pressure to your drill press when you are using HSS to try and drill tool steel is also bad for the drill mechanics because it is like driving the lever down when the drill is powered off. You are also advising running the drill slow so the drill bit is more or less stationery and your are bearing your weight down on it. Unless your drill press is heavy you will fuck it up soon.

You are basically using your drill press as a grinder. A HSS drill bit will not cut tool steel (because they are of equal hardness) regardless of how slow or fast you run your drill. By applying pressure (and using a heavy lubricant) you are just creating a hole by abrasion.

The core of the OPs problem is that he is trying to drill tool steel using a drill bit made from tool steel. This may seem self-evident but I'm going to say it because I don't think you havet understood it: to drill a material you must use a drill bit that is harder than the material.

If you use a drill bit material that is harder than tool steel , i.e. cobalt allloy or tungsten carbide, you won't need heavy pressure (because the bit will actually cut the tool steel rather than abdrade it) and you also won't need a drill press (but you may need a heavy duty hand drill).
Last edited by piotr on Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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piotr

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Post Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:12 am

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

GeneT wrote:steveslock nailed it. A handheld drill is probably going to go way too fast. If you can't access a drill press, see if you can sandwich the steel between two pieces of 1018 or even aluminum and drill through the whole enchilada.

GsT


No he didn't nail it and I don't think you know what you are talking about. Drills make holes by cutting. In order for material A to cut material B, A must be harder than B. The metal drilling bits that you get from hardware stores are made of HSS (High Speed Steel). HSS is intended for drilling on soft metal. AISIS 1095 is a tool steel , i.e. it is roughly the same hardness as HSS so it is not possible to drill tool steel using HSS. The HSS drill bit won't cut into the AISI 1095 but instead will stay on the same area and create friction and hence heat. Altering the speed of the drill will not alter the fact that HSS is incapabale of cutting AISI 1095 and sandwiching the AISI between aluminium is not going to magically improve the rockwell hardness of the HSS drill bit.

Slowing down the drill, applying heavy pressure and lube is just using the drill as a crude grinder. All you are doing is abrading a whole into the material using the flat part of the tip of the drill bit. Sorry but this is retarded.

The simple solution is to just always select a drill bit that is made of a material harder than the material you want to drill. Is this such a difficult concept to understand. This way the drill bit can actually do what its supposed to do -- cut -- instead of abrade.
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Bryanxwhite

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Post Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:48 am

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

piotr wrote:
GeneT wrote:steveslock nailed it. A handheld drill is probably going to go way too fast. If you can't access a drill press, see if you can sandwich the steel between two pieces of 1018 or even aluminum and drill through the whole enchilada.

GsT


No he didn't nail it and I don't think you know what you are talking about. Drills make holes by cutting. In order for material A to cut material B, A must be harder than B. The metal drilling bits that you get from hardware stores are made of HSS (High Speed Steel). HSS is intended for drilling on soft metal. AISIS 1095 is a tool steel , i.e. it is roughly the same hardness as HSS so it is not possible to drill tool steel using HSS. The HSS drill bit won't cut into the AISI 1095 but instead will stay on the same area and create friction and hence heat. Altering the speed of the drill will not alter the fact that HSS is incapabale of cutting AISI 1095 and sandwiching the AISI between aluminium is not going to magically improve the rockwell hardness of the HSS drill bit.

Slowing down the drill, applying heavy pressure and lube is just using the drill as a crude grinder. All you are doing is abrading a whole into the material using the flat part of the tip of the drill bit. Sorry but this is retarded.

The simple solution is to just always select a drill bit that is made of a material harder than the material you want to drill. Is this such a difficult concept to understand. This way the drill bit can actually do what its supposed to do -- cut -- instead of abrade.

Thank you very much Piotr! That's exactly what's happening. The Rigid cobalt bit I got was shit! It did exactly what you explained..no cutting, just heat and subsequintly burning the bit up. I'm definitely going to invest is some tungsten bits. I'm going to be doing this for a while so I might as well spend the money. I learned when I was a mechanic that having the right tool separates being able to complete the job from standing there scratching your head. By the way, the 1095 is at least 30% stronger than the Starret I was previously using, just in case anyone is wondering what feeler stock to get. If you know of any bits you would use yourself please PM me.
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steveslock

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Post Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:11 am

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

take a drill bit meant for drilling through the hard plate of a safe then try it on mild steel. Tell me how well it drills the steel even though it is harder than mild steel?

Speed and pressure have nothing to do with drilling a hole? I'd better get out the old machinist hand book...

piotr, my only reason for posting was to give him some advice to get the hole drilled. If he is drilling a 100 holes then by all means send it out and chuck it up in the bridgeport. For a couple holes, put the thing in a full size drill press take your time and get-r-done.
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piotr

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Post Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:39 am

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

Bryanxwhite wrote:By the way, the 1095 is at least 30% stronger than the Starret I was previously using, just in case anyone is wondering what feeler stock to get. If you know of any bits you would use yourself please PM me.


Wow! Stronger than Starrett. Thanks for sharing. I will try and get some Precision Brand feeler stock. I have experience with ShopAid feeler gauge stock and that too is AISI 1095 but because that is hard for me to get I have started buying Starrett from ebay. ShopAid feels about the same as Starrett but I haven't done any sort of objective test. Can you share yor source for Precision Brand stock?

Regarding drill bits I would just go for any tungsten carbide to drill tool steel. Some of the cobalt bits (such as Sutton -- an Australian manufacturer) are ok but for AISI 1095 I think tungsten carbide is much better. I use tungsten carbide burrs on both a Dremel and a die grinder and they cut through the ShopAid 1095 without being destroyed in the process.
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piotr

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Post Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:08 am

Re: Help!-Drilling holes in 1095 steel

steveslock wrote:take a drill bit meant for drilling through the hard plate of a safe then try it on mild steel. Tell me how well it drills the steel even though it is harder than mild steel?


That's completely irrelevant to the original problem. The simple fact of the matter which you and your fan fail to understand is that if the drill bit is to complete and survive the task it must be harder than the material it drills.

Speed and pressure have nothing to do with drilling a hole? I'd better get out the old machinist hand book...


I didn't write that nor even imply that. However, no amount of speed or pressure will enable a tool steel bit to drill through a piece of tool steel. What you are advising is physically impossible. A tool steel bit against a piece of tool steel will at best drill a hole via abrasion and the bit will be totally destroyed. It can be no other way. Wood will also drill wood you can see that by using the bow and drill fire lighting method. You do get a hole but you also abrade the wooden drill and light a fire in the process. What you are advocating is essentially the same as drilling wood with a wooden bit and saying to me "look, look here you can drill a hole just press harder". No shit. Excessive pressure doesn't in any way help the drill bit properly work. It helps you make a whole but that is not by cutting.

Do get the machinists handbook out and read what is says about drilling tool steel. I am certain it doesn't say just use a HSS drill bit, run your drill slow, dump a heap of lube on it and press as hard as you can. That is how an ignorant jackass behaves in a workshop.

piotr, my only reason for posting was to give him some advice to get the hole drilled. If he is drilling a 100 holes then by all means send it out and chuck it up in the bridgeport. For a couple holes, put the thing in a full size drill press take your time and get-r-done.

[/quote]

The advice is simply get a tungsten carbide bit. The weight you put on top of a hand drill when working on a bench that is at correct (ergonomic) height is adequate to drill through 0.025" tool steel. The purpose of a drill press isn't so that you can push the drill bit harder into the work than you can with a hand drill (if you think it is then you need to go back to your machinists manual). There is an optimum amount of pressure that needs to be exerted and exceeding that won't help you drill it will only help you make a hole by abrasion (and generate lots of heat). An adequately powered hand drill with a tungsten carbide bit will drill through .025" tool steel and more.
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