FAQ  •  My feedback  •  Feedback
UKLockpickers.co.uk Lockpicking supplies such as Lockpicks, tools, and more! COMMANDOLOCK.COM Military grade padlock systems lockpickshop.com A source for lockpicking supplies such as lockpicks, locksmith tools, and more!

Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

<<

sandman

I've Been Banned!!
I've Been Banned!!

Posts: 345

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:43 pm

Location: Texas

Post Mon May 30, 2011 7:22 pm

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

amazing work piotr! if you end up having some time on your hands, you should come up with either a way to make a falle pick set by stamping them for time and money purposes, or come up with a design of your own! eithway, its good to see another badass homebrew from a friend, i just hope either you, or ratyoke, or jruther, chokytonk, tooly, chris, elbo, can figure out some way to mass produce something, or find a quicker cheaper way to make a badass pick

an immitation falle set would be very popular, but it completely obvious you are a craftsman and put alot of time into your work. wish there was a way to mass produce with a simple 500 dollar stamping machine, is there such a thing?
<<

piotr

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 738

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:59 am

Location: Victoria, Australia

Post Tue May 31, 2011 1:19 am

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

jruther2 wrote:Nice job replicating the shapes Piotr.


Thanks JR.

Have you used picks made from this steel before? If so, would you care to comment on its performance versus a couple of the manufactured picks that most of us are familiar with? If you have answered this question before, feel free to tell me to use the search function. :mrgreen:


They feel similar to the real Falle-Safe picks in terms of rigidity and weight -- I suspect that they are made of AISI 1095. That may not be helpful comparison but none of the other commercial picks have the same feel as the ShopAid AISI 1095. I have ordered some Starrett feeler gauge stock so I will soon be able to make a direct (and more helpful) comparison.
<<

piotr

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 738

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:59 am

Location: Victoria, Australia

Post Tue May 31, 2011 1:35 am

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

sandman wrote:amazing work piotr!


Thanks mate.

if you end up having some time on your hands, you should come up with either a way to make a falle pick set by stamping them for time and money purposes, or come up with a design of your own! eithway, its good to see another badass homebrew from a friend, i just hope either you, or ratyoke, or jruther, chokytonk, tooly, chris, elbo, can figure out some way to mass produce something, or find a quicker cheaper way to make a badass pick


I don't think mass production is feasible but automated cottage industry scale production may be possible. A CNC micromill is probably the most viable way to automate a cottage industry but the costs of the end-mills raises the operating costs too much to be able to sell the product at a competitive price. However, there is a technology on the horizon (injection moulded alloy of tool steel strength) that could dramatically reduce the cost of end-mills (and other tool steel components) and this would make milling picks much cheaper than it is now. This may be a solution but it is not currently available.

an immitation falle set would be very popular


I agree and I was initially hoping that Storm would enable the hobbyist to assemble a Falle-Safe kit equivalent for a fraction of the cost of the Falle's but I now doubt this.

but it completely obvious you are a craftsman and put alot of time into your work.


I still have heaps to learn and many skills to acquire.

wish there was a way to mass produce with a simple 500 dollar stamping machine, is there such a thing?


I don't know of any such technology. Die cutting machines are costly and it costs big bucks to master the dies.
<<

MBI

User avatar

Site Owner

Posts: 1532

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:25 am

Location: Utah, USA

Post Tue May 31, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

piotr wrote:I agree and I was initially hoping that Storm would enable the hobbyist to assemble a Falle-Safe kit equivalent for a fraction of the cost of the Falle's but I now doubt this.


Southern Specialties at www.lockpicktools.com used to offer a couple of small imitation Falle sets. They're sold out now, but I suppose it's possible they might do it again. They had one set of three double ended hooks and one set of three double ended sweeps, price was around $20 per set of three if I remember right.

I spoke to the owner about them, he already owns his own stamping equipment but he said it was still cheaper for him to have them laser cut than to have dies made for a small production run, if that puts the cost of dies and stamping into perspective.

Another mass production possibility for someone on a limited budget is acid etching them from sheets of steel. Toool pick sets are made that way, and judging from the marks on the edges of the picks I suspect both Falle and Storm sets are made that way too.
<<

piotr

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 738

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:59 am

Location: Victoria, Australia

Post Tue May 31, 2011 2:45 am

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

MBI wrote:Southern Specialties at www.lockpicktools.com used to offer a couple of small imitation Falle sets. They're sold out now, but I suppose it's possible they might do it again. They had one set of three double ended hooks and one set of three double ended sweeps, price was around $20 per set of three if I remember right.


I have those, they are ok. I asked SS if they will do another run of them and they said there is no plan for the immediate future.

Another mass production possibility for someone on a limited budget is acid etching them from sheets of steel. Toool pick sets are made that way, and judging from the marks on the edges of the picks I suspect both Falle and Storm sets are made that way too.


I don't know much about acid etching, I'll read-up on it. It would be good if Bary Wels did another production run of the original TOOOL set but I don't see that happening.
<<

Dopug

Familiar Face

Posts: 162

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:55 pm

Location: United kingdom

Post Tue May 31, 2011 10:47 am

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

piotr wrote:

I don't think mass production is feasible but automated cottage industry scale production may be possible. A CNC micromill is probably the most viable way to automate a cottage industry but the costs of the end-mills raises the operating costs too much to be able to sell the product at a competitive price. However, there is a technology on the horizon (injection moulded alloy of tool steel strength) that could dramatically reduce the cost of end-mills (and other tool steel components) and this would make milling picks much cheaper than it is now. This may be a solution but it is not currently available.


Thanks for those measurement mate.

As to production, I don't think milling would be a great way of cutting sheet steel, i have far more lathe experience that milling but i think you might find that the lateral forces of the milling tool would put to much strain on the pick when cutting the neck and tip. Laser cutting, water jet cutting, stamping or casting is the way to go for pick making. another possible option to semi mass production at home would be clamp a piece of annealed steel (untempered steel) withing a harden steel template, grind and sand round the template then once you have a large number of picks made, temper them all in a small home made gas forge.
<<

ratyoke

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 280

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:59 am

Location: South Korea and Chicago

Post Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:31 am

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

piotr wrote:Thanks for the offer. I'm ok with templates. I own a Falle-Safe set and I scanned the picks then used Photoshop to turn them into silhouettes. I printed out the emplates and attached them to the steel with rubber cement but I am not happy with this process and I will be experimenting with Press-N-Peel next.


They look good.

If you are copying picks you already own I like to super glue the actual pick to the feeler gauge and trace it with a scribe rather than using paper templates. Most of my picks I have made a master copy of the handle design, and use that to trace onto the metal.

I think it might be a bitch to saw hardened and tempered high carbon steel with a jewelers saw, though I have not tried. I prefer to grind to about 1mm of the scribed line with a bench grinder, then file the rest.
<<

s1deshowmick

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 634

Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:31 am

Location: Western Australia

Post Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

Real nice job of the picks ol' mate, they are extremely shiny....

Great stuff..
If you can't be good, Be good at it.

http://au.youtube.com/S1DESHOWMICK
<<

piotr

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 738

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:59 am

Location: Victoria, Australia

Post Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:17 am

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

ratyoke wrote:They look good.


Thank-you.

If you are copying picks you already own I like to super glue the actual pick to the feeler gauge and trace it with a scribe rather than using paper templates. Most of my picks I have made a master copy of the handle design, and use that to trace onto the metal.


Do you just use Acetone to disolve the super glue bond? I saw a video by Loveless on his knife-making method and he uses a welders' clamp to hold the master on the stock which he then scribes around. I have ordered a set of small welders' clamps to try this method.

I think it might be a bitch to saw hardened and tempered high carbon steel with a jewelers saw, though I have not tried.


I think you are right but I will try to see how much of a bitch it actually is.

I prefer to grind to about 1mm of the scribed line with a bench grinder, then file the rest.


I'll try that. I think I have been a bit ambitious in grinding right down to the line.

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.
<<

piotr

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 738

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:59 am

Location: Victoria, Australia

Post Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:20 am

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

s1deshowmick wrote:Real nice job of the picks ol' mate, they are extremely shiny....

Great stuff..


Thanks Mick. The photos don't do them justice they are extremely shiny.
<<

bezza1

User avatar

I've Been Banned!!
I've Been Banned!!

Posts: 681

Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:34 am

Location: nsw,australia

Post Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:38 am

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

damm pitor thay are sexy i want a set lol
keep going dont look back allways achive your goals
and follow your dreams................
<<

falcon

User avatar

Familiar Face

Posts: 89

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:05 am

Location: Norway

Post Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:27 pm

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

Wow....they look awesome!
<<

ratyoke

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 280

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:59 am

Location: South Korea and Chicago

Post Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:05 am

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

piotr wrote:
Do you just use Acetone to disolve the super glue bond? I saw a video by Loveless on his knife-making method and he uses a welders' clamp to hold the master on the stock which he then scribes around. I have ordered a set of small welders' clamps to try this method.


Usually I just flex the metal and the two pieces break apart. Otherwise I pry them apart with an X-acto knife. I also use an X-acto knife to pick off the glue after they're apart. Acetone usually isn't necessary.
<<

piotr

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 738

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:59 am

Location: Victoria, Australia

Post Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:12 am

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

ratyoke wrote:Usually I just flex the metal and the two pieces break apart. Otherwise I pry them apart with an X-acto knife. I also use an X-acto knife to pick off the glue after they're apart. Acetone usually isn't necessary.


Thanks for the tip! Much appreciated.
<<

sandman

I've Been Banned!!
I've Been Banned!!

Posts: 345

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:43 pm

Location: Texas

Post Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:15 pm

Re: Ed's Falle-Safe Picks

falle picks for everyone!!!???!!!
PreviousNext

Return to Home Brew

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot]

Don't forget to visit our sponsors for all of your lockpicking needs!
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Grop
"CA Black" theme designed by stsoftware