Key blank duplicator

[plugspin]

I've been working on a prototype for a cheap key blank duplicating machine for about a year now. The focus is on cheap, but still being acurate enough to be worth using. The Easy Entrie is a nice machine but way to expensive for hobby use. The Keyway King is still several thousand dollars. I think the same thing can be achieved with much simipler mechanics. In the end my machine is a fancy dremel/rotory tool platform. Basically it lets you trace the warding on the key blank and reproduce that on a surogate brass strip. The X-Y table is manual, you can lock the left-right motion for each pass up and down the blank.

This is an early prototype:


I'm down to the last few bugs to be worked out but the final revision is within sight, I'd say in the next few weeks.

Thanks!

[HT4]

Interesting. I'd love to see a video of it in action.

[macgng]

very cool concept! can't wait to see it in action

[Werewolf]

I hope you're not underestimating this project.
The Keyway King and similar machines come with a wide range of different cutters. I believe the Keyway King comes with 16. These are needed to cut keys for a variety of key manufacterers , each using their own sizes and angles of cuts. If you were to use some sort of universal cutter , you'll end up with blanks that are too thin and will break too easy.

[Jaakko Fagerlund]

The Easy Entrie is easy to make and quite cheap, it has what, 3 stepper motors, three controllers for them, one DC motor to spin the blade, couple of linear guides, some belt, a few micro switches and the rest is just aluminum plates etc. to machine. Put an Arduino on it, code it and use it for whatever you want it to do, unlike Easy Entrie which wants thousands for a simple program update.

[plugspin]

You bring up good points Werewolf. And I assure you I have not underestimated the project. I started out by looking at making a cheaper clone of the Chinese clone of the Keyway King (For the curious: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-High-quality-wenxing-Model-WX-22-car-key-machine-key-copy-machine/1550684133.html. After adding up the costs I realized the cutters were still a significant source of cost of the machine (almost $1200 for a full set of cutters).

Then it finally occured to me that the key blank does not need to be precision, it just needs to fit in the lock. Key blanks can be made from hacksaw blades after all. So, what is really needed is just the ability to make the rough forms of the key warding with enough strength to be useful. Making the special angle cuts and such is overkill in most cases, just take off the extra material until it fits. But the thinnest cutter should allow you to reproduce highly-warded keyways like EVVA and others.

I've also watched the Easy Entrie operate. The Easy Entrie has a single cutter, a very thin cutter of course. So for this I've opted to only use two cutters, a roughly 2mm cutter and the thinnest cutter I could obtain. Currently that's a .5mm (.02") cutter (you can get thinner, but I haven't found a dremel-compatible mandrel to fit those). This is just a hair thinner than the thinnest cutter that comes with Keyway King.

Last but not least, this is for hobby and research use. If your key blank is not perfect that's ok. If it fits, that's all that's needed.

[plugspin]

The Easy Entrie is easy to make and quite cheap...

I'm no stranger to microcontrollers and stepper motors. However I think duplicating key blanks should be nearly as easy as copying keys, I think a DIY CNC option is cool but way overkill. Plus it's going to make it expensive enough that only a small number of super-hobbiests would want to buy one of those. Mine is the Costco budget model

[Papa Gleb]

The idea looks cool and I love home brew items but I cant understand for the life of me what the heck it is. After reading the comments I am still lost. This isnt a key duplicator, this is a key BLANK duplicator? Are you trying to make key blanks from stock?

[jharveee]

Looks like it would allow you to turn a non-restricted blank into a custom or restricted key blank.
Finally a way to obtain key blanks to impression locks you just couldn't get blanks for.

[plugspin]

Excatly.

There are two ways you could use this: The first way is to make a blank key from an existing cut key (starting with a blank piece of brass). This is not exactly as straight forward of an operation as using a key machine as you are putting material on the duplicate that does not exist on the source key. But it's easy enough if you can set the height of the cutter for each pass. So, you calibrate for each pass using the exposed warding near the head of the key, then cut that down the length of your blank.

The second way to use this is to take existing key blanks and to modify them to fit more keyways.

Once you have your duplicate key blank you can do any operation you want to it. You can use it as an impressioning blank, modify it further for unknown purposes, or even just get your key copied onto this new blank. Obviously you are not going to waste your time with a Kwickset or something. But that new DOM lock in your collection... Or you need some Abloy blanks to mess around with... Or you want both a control and operator key for that S&G 833 you got off of Ebay that came with only 1 key, etc.

[Papa Gleb]

Plugspin, I see your point and logic behind this machine. A small request, can you take a pic of it without the background? Its very hard, at least for me, to separet what belongs to the machine and what is just the background. If you will retake pics, take a few with the machine in the closed/down/operating position.

I also created a little jig for my drill yesterday. Didnt take pics yet but Ill do so first chance I get. Plugspin, look out for it because there is something there that applies to you too, more specifically to your rotary tool.

[HT4]

This thread has me thinking about this... I wonder why a regular dimple/slider cutting machine (fitted with a small carbide burr and a tiny probe) couldn't be used to do this. This solution has the added bonus of already having strong/steady key clamping and sliding mechanisms. The machines are readily available online from China for $100-$200 depending on how hard you look for a bargain. Considering the parts to build your machine, we are not talking about a large price difference... and without belittling the OP's innovation and creativity, I'd imagine this would be much better/more useful. Thoughts?

[MBI]

This thread has me thinking about this... I wonder why a regular dimple/slider cutting machine (fitted with a small carbide burr and a tiny probe) couldn't be used to do this. This solution has the added bonus of already having strong/steady key clamping and sliding mechanisms. The machines are readily available online from China for $100-$200 depending on how hard you look for a bargain. Considering the parts to build your machine, we are not talking about a large price difference... and without belittling the OP's innovation and creativity, I'd imagine this would be much better/more useful. Thoughts?

I have one of those relatively inexpensive dimple key duplicators from China and I've experimented a little bit with altering blanks with it. Not enough to be "good" at it, but I messed with it enough to think it might be possible to make a custom blank with one of these IF you can find correctly shaped and sized milling cutters. There were some minor problems, but I think they can be overcome if someone is handy or mechanically inclined enough. This thing is basically a poor-man's version of a Framon Sidewinder.

I've heard that doing something like modifying a drill press into a mill can quickly wear out the bearings because you're putting stress on them in directions other than those intended. Looking at this cheap-o machine, I was worried about having this kind of problem, so when milling a long groove what I did was cut a line of dimples close together so it was cutting straight down for each one. Then I milled along in a line to connect the dimples and make them into a line. I don't know if this would avoid bearing problems, but I figured it might at least help a little since it had less resistance when cutting sideways. It might not be necessary to do that since supposedly these machines are also able to cut "laser-cut" high security auto keys, but it made me worry less about it.

Another potential problem is clamping the blank. Depending on what kind of blanks you're doing, you might need to make a custom clamp to hold it in place. Supposedly this machine can duplicate tubular keys, rod keys, dimple keys and all sorts of other kinds of oddball and high security blanks. Clamping them securely is another issue. Some things would be easy as pie to hold in place, others... not so much. You're kind of having to freehand placing the blank, and in some cases rotating the blank, in the machine and lining everything up right.

I was trying to modify a commercial 6 pin Schlage C keyway blank into a Primus blank. I duplicated the Primus side bitting into the side of the regular Schlage blank. That appeared to work, but I wasn't able to test it yet due to the thickness of the blank. A regular C keyway blank won't fit into a Primus keyway since Primus keys are thinner. I worked on thinning the blank with this Chinese sidewinder-style of duplicator but it was a bit of a pain. Just getting the blank thinned enough to fit wasn't an issue, but I was worried that if I thinned the wrong side too much, it might pull the side bitting too far from the finger pins to be able to unlock them.

After a couple of days the school who needed me to make some Primus blanks for them was able to get the letters of authorization to get some real Primus blanks that I could use to make some proper duplicates for them, so I didn't finish the experimental project of making Primus blanks. From the looks of the side bitting of the key, I think it successfully duplicated them, but I can't honestly say I ever produced a finished, working blank with it. I got busy with life and never went back to the project. But long story short, from my limited experience I think these little machines have some potential in making or modifying blanks.

[plugspin]

I have one of those dimple machines too, so you guys are not far off the mark. The horizontal cutter is not really great for very narrow "grooving operations" in this application because your grooves can only be as narrow as your smallest endmill. And I do intend to sell copies of mine once I get it to soup. I have the cost down far enough that I can easily beat a modified dimple machine. I've attached pictures of a newer revision.

[plugspin]

I was able to make some test cuts tonight. I enhanced the exposure and sharpness since phone pics in the dark aren't so great. Not awful for a first try. It's usable but I have some ease-of-use improvements to make yet, vibration is the enemy.