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First Impression

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GWiens2001

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Post Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:05 pm

Re: First Impression

Keep up the good work, PG!

Personally like the pippin file for the above-mentioned reasons, plus one. When you have your first marks, you can use the sharp edge on the back side of the file to put a tiny notch exactly on the mark. This helps prevent the file skipping around until it gets a bite. ;)

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Papa Gleb

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Post Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:00 pm

Re: First Impression

The wheels on the bus go round and round, BAAM, adding one more to my ever so tiny pile of impressioned locks. This one is an actual Master lock not those copies and it gave me great crisp clear marks with every pass. I even weened the turning/wiggling power down by half and still got great marks. Over all from start to finish it took me about an hour but then refining it and making the key work smoother took another hour and I may have over done it. I put everything down at around 4am so being tired was probably the main culprit but the key works with a slight jiggle but works none the less.

On to the tool, I had some issues upload the video I may about the key holder so here it is. The tool does have several flaws which I planned address and make a new tool but I think I will cave and get a commercial holder since I am having fun with impressioning and have success.
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jeffmoss26

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Post Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:45 pm

Re: First Impression

What are you using for magnification?
femurat: They're called restricted for a reason...
Innerpicked: The more keys you carry, the more important you look
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:58 pm

Re: First Impression

Wow! You made that key holder?! That's pretty nifty!

First off, I REALLY like what MrWizard & Farmerfreak had to say. I'm gonna have to tryn' utilize some of that advice.
Although my keys turn out looking good & working smooth... I feel it's more a result of tedious work and persistence
rather than efficient skill. I'm not shorting myself here. But really. I mean if I were watch Farmerfreak whip up a key
from start to finish... I'll bet I would be floored with the realization of just how much time & experience I still need. lol

Regardless of whether you're using a pippen or a round, I think a WB key is a great example of what to strive for.
The straight, gradually sloped angels leading down to nice narrow, rounded valleys. As MrWizard eluded to, be
conscious of what portion of the file you're using. Use more of the tip of the file in order to keep the valley's tight,
and the wider portion of the file for fanning out the angels.

Image

In regards to my hand cut keys that look factory cut. Just to clarify, this is a two part process... and a two key process.
There's no way in hell I could get cuts to look like that WHILE impressioning. Instead, I first impression a working key -
which ends up looking like what you're use to seeing (round cuts kinda like a shark took a bit out of it). I then cut a nice
looking key using the first as a guide for space and depth. I use a pippen and a very small flat file for this. The knife edge
of the pippin for the flat valleys and the small flat file for the slopes. It's very tedious work and can be a real bitch to get a
key lookin' like that AND work smoothly though, lol. You have to be a little on the obsessive side. ha!

Image

Anyway, I know you and I already talked about this Gleb, but I thought it would be good to mention so people don't
get discouraged & think WTF?! These keys are NOT the result of impressiong. They are made AFTER the fact.

Great work so far! I'm very much lookin' forward to seeing more.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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escapenrv

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Post Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:52 pm

Re: First Impression

Great work on your keys. I want to get back to this method in the spring. I really like your key holder and may try to make me one. I hope to return my vice-grips to the tool bag.
Thanks for sharing the photos....

Steve
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Papa Gleb

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Post Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: First Impression

Jeff:
This is the exact one that I am currently using. The bad side it makes your forehead sweat. The good side is that its on your head so there is no need to pick up an extra item/tool: http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illumi ... magnifying

I am also getting this one as its very small and portable plus has 60x zoom. This combined with my key holder and a 4 cut needle file and I have a complete portable kit. Just need to find something to put all of the tools into like a pouch or something: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AQA ... GOKGRYI3G5

I like that its very small and fits into a pocket so if needed, you have it on the go plus I also have a Swiss 4 cut needle file so I'll have a good portable kit. Just need to find a way to hold everything together like a pouch or something. Plus its 60x zoom which I think may be unnecessary for impressioning because you will be seeing the marks the file leaves but Ill post more once I try it.

Oldfast:
Great thinking. Im sure many had the same question about those keys as I did.

As for the tool, it obviously started life as a screw driver, more specifically a screw driver to remove one-way screws but one of the little tips broke and it just so happened that it was in front of me at the same time i seen an IC core tailpiece spinner tool and thought why not make one. After a quick brainstorm and sketch (always like to draw out a new design as it saves tons of errors) I realized it can also be a key holder and boom its done. Some important advise that comes from the flaws I see in my tool: when picking a holder body make sure the part that the key will go into is as wide as possible. You want to have as much surface area as possible to grab that blank plus it gives it strength when which is important. There is power applied to the blank, then applied with every pass and more. But a final word which I am sure EVERY one will agree, there is a HUGE difference between using a holder or vise grips (tried with the big and the tiny ones). I am no where near adding any cents towards impressioning & the tool used but from what I see, seen, read, watched, heard and felt with my own hands there is a HUGE difference so if you really are getting into impressioning and its something that up your ally make or get yourself a handle.
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Farmerfreak

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Post Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:29 am

Re: First Impression

This was done very quickly on a job. In swinging door, lever on the left hand side, worst position. It didn't want to be picked easily (yes sometimes locks will fight with me, but one way or another, I will win). I looked inside, didn't see any splits. So I pre-cut all 5 cuts to 1 1/2 depth, then went over them with a file to a 2 depth and started impressioning. I use vice grips, do not use magnification, and was done in a matter of minutes.
Image
Note the shallow cut in the back, had I switched picks I should have been able to pick it.

Edit: I used the best possible light source. THE SUN!! Everything else pales in comparison.
Last edited by Farmerfreak on Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jeffmoss26

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Post Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:53 am

Re: First Impression

Thanks for the links to the magnifier. Do you have a link for the file you use?
femurat: They're called restricted for a reason...
Innerpicked: The more keys you carry, the more important you look
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
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Papa Gleb

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Post Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:16 pm

Re: First Impression

This impressioning thing has got be hooked, better said addicted. This is the WB that i started impressioning with that ate 6 blanks except this time around I already impressioning a few locks so I had more experience and knew what to look for. I still need to give this key a few more passes but it was already past 4 am and with work in 4 hours I decided to sleep. Over all this one took less than any of the others I did this week probably because I am slowly getting the hand of things. Total time is under 3 hours. While I impress, I also watch TV with my wife and snack and shit, I will try from start to finish with no in between breaks just to see how long it really takes me.

Freaky Farmer, I am trying to increase my performance time but a few minutes is insane great stuff. I am just confused on what you mean by "splits"?

Jeff, I use a 6 inch 4 cut Swiss purchased from here: http://www.artcotools.com/swiss-precisi ... round.html
I also purchased a 6 inch 4 cut needle file which is just as great but small. This site is great overall and the prices are amazing. At least compared to what I have seen in a locksmith supply catalog where a round Swiss file (not pippin) was $70 lol.
Jeff is this thread getting you to impressioning?
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jharveee

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Post Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: First Impression

Split= the gap between the driver pin and the key pin.(Guessing)
Look into the keyway, the first pin can be seen.
short pins a gap will be seen.
long pins the gap will be up in the plug.
maybe with a wafer reading tool or pick, or a small scope, you could see deeper into the keyway.
Not with my eyes.
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Papa Gleb

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Post Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:01 pm

Re: First Impression

Aaaa yea now I see. The split does give an estimate as to how big/small the pins are. Thanks Harvey
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jharveee

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Post Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:23 pm

Re: First Impression

upside.JPG

Hey Papa,
Try this if you already haven't.
Pick your lock and turn it upside down.
Now have a look.
For me the first pin is about 4 file strokes.
The second pin is lower, or less strokes.
Dang can't see the third pin. Hmm...use hook pick and feel it. is it taller or shorter?
and so on. :smile:
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jeffmoss26

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Post Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:34 pm

Re: First Impression

Papa Gleb wrote:This impressioning thing has got be hooked, better said addicted. This is the WB that i started impressioning with that ate 6 blanks except this time around I already impressioning a few locks so I had more experience and knew what to look for. I still need to give this key a few more passes but it was already past 4 am and with work in 4 hours I decided to sleep. Over all this one took less than any of the others I did this week probably because I am slowly getting the hand of things. Total time is under 3 hours. While I impress, I also watch TV with my wife and snack and shit, I will try from start to finish with no in between breaks just to see how long it really takes me.

Freaky Farmer, I am trying to increase my performance time but a few minutes is insane great stuff. I am just confused on what you mean by "splits"?

Jeff, I use a 6 inch 4 cut Swiss purchased from here: http://www.artcotools.com/swiss-precisi ... round.html
I also purchased a 6 inch 4 cut needle file which is just as great but small. This site is great overall and the prices are amazing. At least compared to what I have seen in a locksmith supply catalog where a round Swiss file (not pippin) was $70 lol.
Jeff is this thread getting you to impressioning?


Yes, lol...I've tried a few times over the years but with very little success. 11 bucks for a file and 8 bucks for a magnifier is not bad at all.
BTW if you want to trade something for that WB, let me know...I collect them!
femurat: They're called restricted for a reason...
Innerpicked: The more keys you carry, the more important you look
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
<<

Papa Gleb

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Post Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: First Impression

Harvey that a great idea. I noticed a few people had mentioned it here: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=7137&start=45
I think its something I will be doing from now on to avoid guess work until I get much better.

Jeff, I seen your collection of WB locks, I thought to show you this one but didnt think you would be interested since its a regular WB meaning no logos of other companies on it. Ill PM you more on this. As for the equipment, yes the prices are great and it really is an amazing file regardless what you will use it on.

I am 4 lock in at this point but have already learned a lot from each lock. Jeff, take a simple master 4 pin and impression it slowly taking your time. Once the lock opens, you will get this amazing feeling that will suck you in not to mention give you a confidence boost which is very needed for beginning impressioners. Also, an important part to get used to or at least for me it was was/is the file use. Each stroke of the file needs to be even otherwise they leave the blank with mutiple angles making it very hard to see marks. Take a blank and just start filing away, looking at the marks it leaves between every few strokes just so your hand can get the movement memorized. I am very sure that if you or anyone starting/learning takes a minute to do this, the results of success a greatly multiplied.

Jeff, if I can be of any more help, please let me know. You know my experience level so keep that in mind lol
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Farmerfreak

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Location: SLC, Utah

Post Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:52 am

Re: First Impression

jharveee wrote:Split= the gap between the driver pin and the key pin.(Guessing)
Correct. :smile:

Papa Gleb wrote:I am trying to increase my performance time but a few minutes is insane great stuff.
It's not insane, it's lots of experience and practice. Once you have done enough of them you will get a good idea how much you can get away with filing down the key. when you learning and get a mark you file to remove the mark. At some point you will start to recognize the marks better and depending on what the mark looks like will determine how you file it down. just to remove the mark (false mark?), or 1/2 depth 1 full depth 1 and 1/2 depth. Just depends on what the marks looks like/how it felt to get the mark. Lots of things that I'm not really sure how to put into words and I just chalk it up to experience.
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