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First Impressioning Attempt

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rai

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Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:04 am

Re: First Impressioning Attempt

Whacking the bow with a light tool while tensioning with a screwdriver through the bow in the handle is an old fashioned method of impressioning
you have to watch to make sure you are keeping the blank fully in the keyway but it works and its good to know because sometimes you don't have the vice grip with you.
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GringoLocksmith

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Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:03 pm

Re: First Impressioning Attempt

I've given up on tensioning with a screwdriver through the bow because I get carried away with the whacking, which results in marking the cuts even when they're already at the right level, pulling the key out a cut with the tensioning screwdriver and not noticing, breaking the shoulder off the key (especially with Y1 blanks), and twisting the entire bow off the key. Tensioning with just my fingers forces me to use a lighter touch. The drawback is I give myself a blood blister with every third key.
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huxleypig

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Post Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:45 am

Re: First Impressioning Attempt

GringoLocksmith wrote:Great post, rai. I think it was you who recommended the Grobet 4 cut in another post. I bought one and impressioning has become much easier.

I also want to second that advice about starting by running a Sharpie over the top of the key. I only use that to center my cuts. Thereafter it just kind of obscures the marks for me. Sometimes at the very start of the process when I've blackened the key and jiggled it around in the lock for the first time, it makes clear marks on the sides of the key that don't perfectly align with the fainter ones on the top. The marks on the sides are almost always in the wrong spots.

Lastly -- and maybe I'll be scolded for admitting this -- sometimes when I don't see any marks, I whack the bow with the handle of a screwdriver as I turn it with the other hand. That usually marks it pretty good.


About the marks on the side being in different places. I have found this too and I found that it's very easy to start 'wandering' with my filing away from centre of the pin if I start confusing the 2. I find that marking with a sharpie down the height of the key helps a lot.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:47 am

Re: First Impressioning Attempt

This this a great thread that has brought about a lot of good discussion and tips. It's also nice
to see the learning curve it takes to be successful with impressioning... so thanks for including
the trials & tribulations. I too have a lot to learn, but have really come to enjoy impressioning.

Just as it is with lock picking, I think a lot of it comes down to preference. Whatever works for you.
I tend to kinda be in the minority when it comes to some of my preferences, lol. But hey, if it works.


LIGHT: I try to find the oldest, shittiest bulb I can, haha! You know, the ones that seem to give off
an old dingy, almost yellowish hue... rather than a nice bright/natural/white. Yup, lol, those ones.
I position it in front of me & beyond my work area by maybe about a 1 1/2 ft. I also keep it fairly
close to the work bench (only 6-8 inches off the surface). The hood of the lamp directs most of
the light down, while the rest of it is cast on my work area at maybe a 25-30 degree angle or so.

As mentioned, the trick is finding the best angle that will illuminate the marks. Slowly 'roll' the
key back & forth. Also, simply viewing the key from the other side will sometimes reveal more.

MAGNIFICATION: For the most part I don't use it. When I do, it's a pair of reading glasses (3X)

FILES: I might get chewed up for this, lol.... but I'll grab my round file over a pippin ANY day.
Don't get me wrong, I have both & love both (for different reasons). But a round/rat tail file is
not only easier for a beginner to handle, but thoroughly maintains it's value in the hands of
a more experienced user. Any drifting is corrected almost effortlessly. And, the slightly broader
cuts just seem to accepts marks better. In general, the shape of this file is just more forgiving.

If you're gonna go shopping, you might take a look here. I've purchased from Bradley a
couple times now. Quality files, fair prices, and VERY attentive to any questions you have.

KNIFE EDGE METHOD: Personally, I don't like nor recommend this. It can be tedious to
maintain the correct angles and often times hinders more than it helps anyway. With few
exceptions, it's just plain unnecessary with most pin tumblers or even wafers (file, desk type).
If you DO use it though keep in mind what Rai said. Don't just mindlessly put an edge on your
blank. First take a look at the pins in relation to the keyway, then place the edge accordingly.

Jimylongs!!! Thanks again for sharing. 3rd time's a charm... keep us posted!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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MrAnybody

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The Muffin Man
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Post Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:01 pm

Re: First Impressioning Attempt

So much good stuff in this thread I'm now taking notes. I'm just lovin this.

I had a few questions a while back but they got missed in the midst of good stuff coming thick and fast.

Looks like I'm gonna have to impression from a steel blank, so anyone ever impressioned on a steel blank using UV light and marker? I've been told it's useful for picking up marks on a harder steel blank. Any thoughts on that?

You find you need UV safety glasses when using UV under magnification?

Is my Grobet gonna be messed up using it on steel blanks rather than brass?

Many thanks.
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:25 pm

Re: First Impressioning Attempt

Need to get another UV marker, as mine has been lost in the shuffle.

Yes, it does help with impressioning steel blanks. No, in most cases, you do not need special glasses with the UV marker with a UV light.

A standard marker works well, but have a Martin Pink Professional Impressioning Tool that has both a LED light source and a UV light source, depending on your needs. Don't use it much anymore, as, like Oldfast, don't often use magnification now. As you gain experience, you need less magnification.

Would not touch a steel blank with my Grobet. It may cut the steel, but it will wear the file a a much greater rate.

Use my pippin file not as much of late, as am usually at work when I get a little time to impression a lock. Like magnification, better files (while exceptionally nice) are less important when you are used to seeing the marks. Most often, using a GearWrench file set that normally gets use filing steel and other metals in my work as a mechanic.

At home, my pippen is on my desk where most of my lock work occurs, and when using a good file made for impressioning, no matter what style of file, it is much easier to read marks. So impressioning at home with my pippen is much faster after being used to the cruddy surface of the normal files at work. Think of it as being used to roughly filed picks and switching to beautifully polished set.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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jimylongs

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Location: Utah, United States

Post Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: First Impressioning Attempt

So I'm getting ready for round #3
I have a 10X loupe, 45X microscope thing, and Nicholson #4 round file that should arrive tomorrow sometime. Just in time for the weekend :) I really like the idea of using an dimmer light, as it feels like the lights I'm currently using might be blowing out allot of the detail. I'll have to look around and see if I can find an old 40 watt bulb around.
The file I'm waiting for:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006P2XPAY/ref=biss_dp_sa1
The 10X Loupe
http://www.amazon.com/SE-Loupe-Chrome-P ... X+%26+20+X
The 45X Mini Microscope
http://www.amazon.com/SE-Microscope-Ill ... ini%2C+45x

From what I'm reading, the magnification probably won't help the most. I do hope the #4 file will be allot more fine, right now the #2 leaves a rough finish even if I attempt to be extremely light.

I know this is the cheap way to go, and in the end it's most likely better to buy good tools in the first place. But this is the way I roll. Suffer and learn. :-D
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jimylongs

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Location: Utah, United States

Post Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:48 pm

Re: First Impressioning Attempt

Attempt 3

I received the Nicholson #4 file and there's a huge difference between a #2 and #4. My old #2 is on the left side, and the new #4 is on the right side. The new file made it allot easier to get a consistent service. After using the #4, the #2 file feels extremely rough. I sprayed some dry lube on it before I started and the file felt great. I'm wondering how much I'm missing out on a nice Grobet file.

Image

Here it is again, Nicholson Swiss cut #4
Image

It was nice and sunny outside so I sat out on my porch. The sun light seems quite a bit less harsh than what I had been using before.
Here's the first cut and I basically guessed where to start. After getting the initial surface as smooth and consistent as I could, I don't feel I really could pick out a good solid impression So I just kind of guessed.
Image

Honestly it really felt like I was guessing throughout the whole process. I kind of felt like I had cheated as well because I looked at the key before I started. I am certain I was able to make out quite a few impressions though! So I'm pretty excited about that.

I was pretty surprised when it turned :)
Image

Just a few notes:
    I used the Jeweler x10 loupe almost the entire time. I tried out the x45 mini scope thing and like the loupe much more
    I almost got the key stuck because I wasn't filing down in-between the cuts. I took one of my old half round needle files and filed the peaks down. Is this why the Pippin shape is popular, because it has a semi flat surface to do this? If I don't get a Pippin file, I'll get a half circle #4 file to do this. The old needle file really roughed up the peaks and I tried to clean them backup but they weren't the same after.
    Next time, I'm not going to look at the key at all. I might pick the lock a few times, just to get a feel. I hope this will give me someone of an idea the key would look like and is less cheating.
    Nearly all the impressions I believe I found were like "I think that might be one."
    I spent a good 45 minutes.
    I want to figure out how to take super close pictures. I took the picture of the key above through the Jeweler loupe. I tried to take allot of pictures, but not many of them turned out very well.
    It was fun.
    I wish I wouldn't have cheated and looked at the key before.
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:58 pm

Re: First Impressioning Attempt

That is why the pippin file is popular. That number 4 Swiss cut file should leave a very nice surface if you are keeping the file level to the key blank and use it smoothly.

You can also try using 400 grit sandpaper to polish the top surface for the initial preparation to find the marks easier. When you find one, use an ultra-fine marker to draw a line straight down from it. That will help keep you in line when you file. If you get a couple of impressioning marks from adjacent pins, you can get an idea of where the other pins are located, and know where to look for the marks.

Feeling kind of rough today. Picked an ABUS 92/65 lock easily enough, but have failed miserably at picking a simple Master Number 3 padlock!!! :oops: And have used four blanks (none broken), and still not succeeded in impressioning a key for that same lock. :cry: :oops: Just ain't got that lovin' feeling today. :( Impressioned another Schlage clone, but not this frickin' Master. Think I better hang it up for today, and give it a go tomorrow.

Glad you made your key!
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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jharveee

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Location: San Marcos, Ca.

Post Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:34 pm

Re: First Impressioning Attempt

Good to see your making progress. :D
Like most things, the more you work on it the better you seem to get.
Don't know if this matters or will help......I noticed the marks left by your vise grips were not centered on the key bow.
I try to clamp mine centered, or inline with key blade.
Never have worked with those blanks, I like the soft brass ones.

Other things that have helped me, trying different locks until I found one that made marks I could plainly see.
Some say dirty old locks are easy.......others say brand new ones.......lube first.......no lube.

Try a few and see what you think?
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loktek

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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:46 am

Location: Missouri

Post Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:25 am

Re: First Impressioning Attempt

Don't get discouraged. I would say that almost anyone can learn to impression to a certain level. A big part of it is confidence. Once you are able to complete the process on a few locks you will "know" that given time you can impression. You picked a tough one for a first lock. I would say that a lot of older vehicles impression way easier than a Schlage keyway lock. Plus with the lock being in the car you don't need a vise to hold the lock. Go to the junk yard and find an old Ford car or truck, say 1970's or 1980's. I almost guarantee you can do one your first try. They mark really easily, and they are pin tumbler so you will get a feel for what the marks look like. You have the 4 cut tapered file that has worked great for me for 30 years. Also, try moving your blank in a kind of figure 8 rotation in one direction, and then in the other. Works for me.
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

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Location: Arizona, United States

Post Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:07 am

Re: First Impressioning Attempt

Just an update on my post from last night - this morning have impressioned four locks, including the SOB Master from yesterday. Picking easily. (This time was using the beautiful hook made by escher7 - the shape works very nicely in the keyway, and man, the feedback is excellent! ) Was just having an off day.

Anyway - to the OP - keep working at it!

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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