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fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

fgarci03 wrote:IMPRESSION 6

My first pin tumbler impression! (Ok, not a real impression, but a key making :mrgreen:)
A while ago, I got this Elzet 751 from ARF-GEF. It had no keys so I wanted to make a key for it. Here's the lock:
Image

So, yesterday night, I disassembled it and looked for a key that fitted, with shallow cuts, so I could work from it:
Image

They key fitted and all it's cuts made the pins stay above the sheerline. Perfect!
Image

So I started filing down, and suddently on of the pins got REALLY under the sheerline. Couldn't understand why.
Then I figured it out... The already cutted key's bitting didn't had the same spacing as this lock. So when I started trimming the sharp edges out of the key, so it fits smoothly on the lock, I was actually filling down where the pins were. So, ditched the key, and today went and grabbed a few blanks.

Start again! Pin by pin this time:
Image

Until I got this key, and this sheerline:
ImageImage

Everything assembled, the key didn't work... Crap, remove the plug again...
After all, all I needed was to file the key just a little bit more on some of the pins, and it now works smoothly! Here's the key:
Image

And the proof of success:
Image

Nothing too great, but good enough for me! :mrgreen:

Today I don't have questions (wow!), but a few notes:
1) I need to start being more carefull with the C-Clip, as it bent a little and now drags when the plug rotates. After a million turns it got smoother and isn't a problem, but it's something I'll watch out next time;
2) I was very carefull on my tryings to test if they key COULD BE REMOVED from the lock, by appling hard pressure on the pins and removing the key from the plug, before inserting the plug on the cylinder. I think it's worth a note, as I'm often distracted with other stuff. Had I not tested and trimmed the edges, I would have ruined this lock.

That's all for now :mrgreen:

Excellent learning curve with this latest impression! That's what it's all about...
learning a couple of new things with each experience, then carry in to the next one.

Spacing can be a bitch sometimes. You could draw lines down the key. When doing it
with the plug out and pins in like you've done with this one, I've also found it helpful
to lightly tap the pins in order to get a mark. No need to do that all the way through
the process... but it's helped me get back on track sometimes when I'm slightly off.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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fgarci03

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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:05 pm

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

Oldfast wrote:Spacing can be a bitch sometimes. You could draw lines down the key. When doing it
with the plug out and pins in like you've done with this one, I've also found it helpful
to lightly tap the pins in order to get a mark. No need to do that all the way through
the process... but it's helped me get back on track sometimes when I'm slightly off.

Well, it was my fault to not have checked it prior to start filing the key.
On the blank I did mark it with a sharpie and gave a light pass with the file to each position to have them marked (the ink came out very easily).

I did have to check once in a while if I was filing the exact right spot, and move just a hair to one of the sides to have it perfect, but what I did was to remove the pins and look down to the key from the holes and see where the center was. Not a big deal, but the taping method seems promissing for my next attemps!

Thanks! :mrgreen:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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oldbiscuit

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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:33 pm

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

I should have posted this sooner, but my camera is on the blitz. When I impression keys for my lever padlocks, I start by heating the bit and melting a thin layer of colored birthday candle wax on it. When inserted and turned it leaves a good impression of the levers and gates.At this point I use a sharp scribe and mark the bit at the edges of every lever and gate and clean off the wax. Then I go to the soot. Just the way I do It, dosen't work everytime, but most times for me.
"It never fails - as soon as I find the key to success, somebody changes the lock!"
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fgarci03

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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:38 pm

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

oldbiscuit wrote:I should have posted this sooner, but my camera is on the blitz. When I impression keys for my lever padlocks, I start by heating the bit and melting a thin layer of colored birthday candle wax on it. When inserted and turned it leaves a good impression of the levers and gates.At this point I use a sharp scribe and mark the bit at the edges of every lever and gate and clean off the wax. Then I go to the soot. Just the way I do It, dosen't work everytime, but most times for me.

Why not use just the soot?
I could guess its for you not to take a drag mark for a lever mark and file it, by knowing exactly where the lever are...
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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oldbiscuit

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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:46 pm

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

When I first started impressioning lever padlocks, I couldn't get a good read with soot on the number of levers and gates. I read somewhere that by putting a thin film of wax on the bit and impressiioning the key while the wax is still fairly soft it would give a good impression. Like I said it works for me, others results may be different.
"It never fails - as soon as I find the key to success, somebody changes the lock!"
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fgarci03

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Post Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:51 pm

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

Another hing to try on my next lever lock impression :mrgreen:

Thanks OB!
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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rai

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Post Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:20 am

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

birthday candle, thats a good tip, thanks oldbiscuit

and now when I pass that on to others they'll think its my idea. :razz:
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fgarci03

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Post Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:21 am

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

IMPRESSION 7

Again, same method as before, but this time I marked all the edge with a sharpie first:
Image
(Now that I look at the pic, you don't really notice the black on the edge because of the flash!)

After that, I inserted the key on the empty plug, inserted the pins and pressed them. It gave nice impressioning marks:
Image

After filing it with a round file I got this raw shape:
Image

Used a flat file to smooth it all up:
Image

NOTE: I didn't file with the round file ALL the way down on the first go. I left a hair sticking out on each pin, because smoothing things out with the flat file might actually file something on the key that wasn't supposed to. After that, tested again, and the pins that still needed filing got a last sweep.

This lock was interesting because of it's pins. Here's a key and a driver pin:
Image
Notice that both have a rounded tip. And being rounded, I suppose that on a real impression, it would make it very hard to see the marks.

Having rounded driver pins, this happens:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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GWiens2001

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Post Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:03 pm

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

What is the key bitting like? Yes, rounded junction of both pins does make picking easier, but even that seems a bit extreme. Then again, I have a Master puck lock that picks that easily with one of Rai's Bogotas.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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fgarci03

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Post Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:50 am

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

There is the image of the key on the post, but it doesn't have much quality.

The bitting is very even throughout the key except the 2nd position which is just a little bit lower...
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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GWiens2001

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Post Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:28 am

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

Ahh, so there is. Did not realize that was the finished key. Yes, that even a bitting along with the rounded pins should make for a very easy pick.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:57 am

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

Another nice one Filipe... keep em' comin' :D
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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fgarci03

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Post Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:25 pm

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

IMPRESSIONS 8 & 9

So, I got a beautifull Corbin Masterring from Keymaster a couple of days ago. It came with 2 user keys, and he was kind enough to send me 3 blanks for my projects.

So I got to work! Disassembled the whole thing:
Image

And got the pins out (note: the pins aren't in the order they go into the chamber. The masterpins come before the spools):
Image

So I didn't make anything new, so I won't describe the process of the impression itself. Just gonna tell you how it went.
I removed bothe plugs, got the pins out and started to think: "How the hell am I gonna put this back together again? I can't use a big plug follower because the follower won't fit the front of the lock.

So before anything else I made the key. Gonna show you the pic in a moment.
After that, with Xeo's precious help, I got everything back together (I was desperate, and Xeo can confirm that because of my "intelligent" questions :mrgreen:)

Basically I removed the top strip and loaded everything from there. But damn. That thing was tight. Was a PITA to remove. And way worse to put back again.

Anyway, after re-assembling everything, I remembered the lock had masterpins, so I could make other keys that operated the master ring. But I knew I wasn't gonna disassemble the whole thing again. So I did the math, and made another master key.

How I did that?
I noticed that the first cut had to be the same on any key (I don't have pictures of that but it's how it goes. The 2nd and 3rd cut have master pins so I can play with them. The last 3 have to be the same on every master key. So I played with the 2nd and 3rd. Basically I made the 2nd master key with the first 3 cuts similar to the user key, and the last 3 similar to the first master key.

I did it without the plug removed, just by comparing to the already made keys. So it doesn't work very well and sometimes doesn't rotate. I guess I filled it a little too much. Anyway I got the job done and have 2 user keys and 2 different master keys.

I'm happy!

Here are the keys:
Image

The top one is the 2nd master key, middle is the user and bottom is the 1st master key. These came out a bit ugly but oh well... I'm still learning :mrgreen:


Note:
Putting the top strip back was insanelly hard. I bent and rebent the SHIT out of the strip! I swear I could hear it say:
"Stop... Please... No more... End-my-suffering... KILL MEEEE!"

It got pretty tight once I got it there. So, in the end, I managed to do something OK today!


Here's the proof:
Image




:mrgreen:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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fgarci03

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Post Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:28 pm

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

IMPRESSION 10

Funny one. I got a Keymark from Jeff a while ago. Wanted a key for it. But no blanks available.

So let's get down to business!
Got a street sweeper bristle and rounded the tip so it can slide through the pins:
Image

Won't walk you up through the process, didn't do anything new.
The only particularity with this lock is I had to screw the tail piece on the plug to make the "key" bump against it so I could work always on the same place.

After a while, inserted the plug in the lock and:
Image

BANG! Opened!

Here's the "key":
Image

So this one has something to it. I have to use a tension wrench to open the lock, as the bristle in to thin for the keyway and doesn't allow it to rotate it. Sometimes it needs a little wiggle to open, but with the amount of times I'm opening and closing it will soon fade out.

I know most of you have done even stranger things. But I need to say that when I bought my first pick set I sure wasn't imagining making a key out of a street sweeper bristle! :mrgreen:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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MBI

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Post Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:25 pm

Re: fgarci03's Impressioning Quest

I think that's the first time I've seen anyone make an improvised key for a Keymark. Nice work.
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